Hidden screw systems for decks and wet PT lumber

[sushinutnc]

I didn't want to hijack another thread, so I'm starting from this:

Mike,

Take a look at the Camo hidden deck fastening system. It is less expensive than the Kreg jig and does not require pre-drilling.

http://www.camofasteners.com/

George

George or others:

Do you have an opinion on using the hidden screw jigs/systems with wet PT lumber?

I'm considering the CAMO, but then I noticed that it creates a 3/16" gap. I haven't bought any lumber yet, but I've always been told (and experienced with the ONLY deck I've helped build), that if the PT lumber is moist, you should butt the edges of the decking up against each other. As they dry, you'll get a good gap.

On the flip side of this, I've seen several PT decks where they gapped the wet boards, and they wound up with 3/8" (and up to 1/2"!) gaps.

I haven't been at Lowes or HD to look through their decking stock, but last time I was there for PT 2-bys and fence pickets, they were all sopping wet. I just read that some "real" lumber yards may carry kiln-dried PT decking.

Opinions/experiences???

 

[NCTurner]

You could always buy your lumber and let it dry for a few weeks prior to your build.

 

[CarvedTones]

You could always buy your lumber and let it dry for a few weeks prior to your build.

+1 or maybe way more. Stop by my house and look at my deck after a rain. In some cases, the construction guys were idiots and it is obvious that the wood might cup the way it did because of the grain orientation and in other cases not so much. But I have several boards that even those morons would have flipped over had they been allowed to dry a bit first.

 

[mshel]

I didn't want to hijack another thread, so I'm starting from this:


George or others:

Do you have an opinion on using the hidden screw jigs/systems with wet PT lumber?

I'm considering the CAMO, but then I noticed that it creates a 3/16" gap. I haven't bought any lumber yet, but I've always been told (and experienced with the ONLY deck I've helped build), that if the PT lumber is moist, you should butt the edges of the decking up against each other. As they dry, you'll get a good gap.

On the flip side of this, I've seen several PT decks where they gapped the wet boards, and they wound up with 3/8" (and up to 1/2"!) gaps.

I haven't been at Lowes or HD to look through their decking stock, but last time I was there for PT 2-bys and fence pickets, they were all sopping wet. I just read that some "real" lumber yards may carry kiln-dried PT decking.

Opinions/experiences???

Only time will tell, I just finished putting a new deck floor down today. I used the camo fastener system. The wood I used wasn't sopping wet but to be sure it wasn't dry. Anyway, I'm hoping it doesn't go to crap down the road. I don't intend on putting down another one so it will just have to do.:dontknow:

Mike

 

[AmishWarlord]

OK these look good, but. If you have a board that goes wild in the middle of the deck and needs to be replaced do you have to unscrew the entire row of boards to get to that one board?

 

[manfre]

OK these look good, but. If you have a board that goes wild in the middle of the deck and needs to be replaced do you have to unscrew the entire row of boards to get to that one board?

If you can get under the deck, you can cut/break out the board that needs to be replaced and then secure the new board with pocket hole screws.

 

[mshel]

OK these look good, but. If you have a board that goes wild in the middle of the deck and needs to be replaced do you have to unscrew the entire row of boards to get to that one board?

According to the mfg. it is possible to remove the screws in the bad board, put a new board down, reattach. Hope I don't have to but based on how the system works, I don't see any problem doing the removal.

Mike

 

[sushinutnc]

You could always buy your lumber and let it dry for a few weeks prior to your build.

It's taken me weeks to plan this thing still... then I have HOA approval and permitting. My wife just wants it done already. Maybe I should buy all the decking as soon as my plan is finished... and it'll be drying while I wait for the HOA/permit. :thumbs_up

 

[sushinutnc]

Only time will tell, I just finished putting a new deck floor down today. I used the camo fastener system. The wood I used wasn't sopping wet but to be sure it wasn't dry. Anyway, I'm hoping it doesn't go to crap down the road. I don't intend on putting down another one so it will just have to do.:dontknow:

Mike

Great to hear you used the CAMO. What was your impression of it? Comments/feedback very much appreciated.

 

[sushinutnc]

According to the mfg. it is possible to remove the screws in the bad board, put a new board down, reattach. Hope I don't have to but based on how the system works, I don't see any problem doing the removal.

Mike

I guess this is a follow on to my other request for comments....

I'm glad you mentioned this, Mike. I noticed the screws in their videos aren't totally hidden. They're screwed in from a fairly high angle, and in some photos look like the heads might be visible from above (they may stick out slightly from the side into the gap between decking boards). How do you like the final look? Any regrets in using the CAMO?

 

[mshel]

Great to hear you used the CAMO. What was your impression of it? Comments/feedback very much appreciated.

I really liked how the system worked. It works very easily and the thing I like about it is that you don't see the holes unless you look for them. I had to face screw a couple boards because the railing prevented me from getting the tool on the board. But all in all, I was satisfied with how everything went down. Since my existing deck was built on 24" centers, I went back in and added additional joists so I really beefed up the structure. I went through 700 screws on the project. Considering I added all the new joists, and I screwed into every joist, it should stand up pretty good. Btw, if you are considering getting this system, let me know, I'll make you a deal on the tool.

Mike

 

[mshel]

I guess this is a follow on to my other request for comments....

I'm glad you mentioned this, Mike. I noticed the screws in their videos aren't totally hidden. They're screwed in from a fairly high angle, and in some photos look like the heads might be visible from above (they may stick out slightly from the side into the gap between decking boards). How do you like the final look? Any regrets in using the CAMO?

Installed correctly, the heads are sunk. I had a couple that did stick out a bit but I think that was because I didn't drive it the full depth. If you have one that doesn't sink, you can remove the tool, and then just drive it a little deeper. The driver bits are made to sink the screws below the surface so driven properly, you shouldn't see any heads. Using the tool, you can't overdrive the screws.

Mike

 

[sushinutnc]

Btw, if you are considering getting this system, let me know, I'll make you a deal on the tool.

Mike

PM sent!

 

[Marlin]

It's taken me weeks to plan this thing still... then I have HOA approval and permitting. My wife just wants it done already. Maybe I should buy all the decking as soon as my plan is finished... and it'll be drying while I wait for the HOA/permit. :thumbs_up

Have you checked to see if there are yards near you that sell dried PT wood?

I know HD/Lowes sells it wet but there are others that stock the dry stuff. Not sure of the cost differance.

 

[sushinutnc]

Have you checked to see if there are yards near you that sell dried PT wood?

I know HD/Lowes sells it wet but there are others that stock the dry stuff. Not sure of the cost differance.

I mentioned that... yes, I still need to check.

 

[scsmith42]

I mentioned that... yes, I still need to check.

The type of lumber to request is "KDAT" pressure treated pine.

KDAT stands for "Kiln Dried After Treatment".

If you buy KDBT, it's still going to be wet, even though it was kiln dried before treatment.

Pine drys fairly quickly, if you stack and sticker in in a breezy area you're still looking at a couple of months for it to dry down below 20%.

 

[Marlin]

The type of lumber to request is "KDAT" pressure treated pine.

KDAT stands for "Kiln Dried After Treatment".

If you buy KDBT, it's still going to be wet, even though it was kiln dried before treatment.

Pine drys fairly quickly, if you stack and sticker in in a breezy area you're still looking at a couple of months for it to dry down below 20%.

Every time I tried to dry PT wood it twist/warps like crazy. Never tried the KDAT stuff and did not even know about it till someone here in the past brought it up.

Is the PT stuff at Lowes/HD just that bad or is it just hard to control the drying with the chemicals and wetness level they have?

 

[CarvedTones]

The type of lumber to request is "KDAT" pressure treated pine.

KDAT stands for "Kiln Dried After Treatment".

If you buy KDBT, it's still going to be wet, even though it was kiln dried before treatment.

Pine drys fairly quickly, if you stack and sticker in in a breezy area you're still looking at a couple of months for it to dry down below 20%.

I don't understand how that would work very well. Do they air dry a while before pressure treating and then kiln dry? Using my gift for oversimplification and love for biscuits and gravy, I think of it like this - a biscuit (like dry wood) will sop up gravy (like the chemicals) quite well but a dumpling (like green wet wood) not so much.

Does that make any sense? is it lunch time yet? I am getting really hungry... :gar-La;

 

[sushinutnc]

The type of lumber to request is "KDAT" pressure treated pine.

KDAT stands for "Kiln Dried After Treatment".

Thanks, Scott. I saw that in one of the books I have on deck building. I'll definitely remember to check for that.

Pine drys fairly quickly, if you stack and sticker in in a breezy area you're still looking at a couple of months for it to dry down below 20%.

That's what I was thinking.... I couldn't imagine a couple weeks would do much, considering how wet I've seen some of the wood from HD/Lowes. I mean some drying is preferable to applying it totally wet, but it's definitely worth a look at the KDAT, especially if I use a tool with a fixed gap.

 

[sushinutnc]

I don't understand how that would work very well. Do they air dry a while before pressure treating and then kiln dry?

It's dried twice; before and after treatment.... and hence the extra cost.

They even call it "re-dried" on capitol city's site:

http://www.capitolcitylumber.com/lumber-plywood/yp-treated-lumber-decking