Bowl Gouge?

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SteveColes

Steve
Staff member
Corporate Member
Somewhere along the line I got the idea that bowl gouge was used on the the inside of the bowel. But after reading a bit, it appears that it is used on the outside of bowl, not the inside.

First, do I have this correct? If so, why. It seems to me that a spindle gouge would be the right tools for the outside. It seems to me that the outside of a bowl is just a half bead.

Somebody please, put me on the correct path?
 

SteveColes

Steve
Staff member
Corporate Member
Re: Bowel Gouge?

BTW, this could of have been an interesting post, because I kept spelling bowl as bowel, The implications are very different:rolf:
 

Grgramps

New User
Roy Hatch
Re: Bowel Gouge?

Steve,
The very thought made me wince. Then I realized the proctologist would probably use an anesthetic.
Roy
 

gsdoby

New User
Gary
Re: Bowel Gouge?

Most of the info I see shows a bowl gouge being used both inside and out. I have also seen the inside being done with scrapers. Again, it appears that whatever you are comfortable with is the way to go.
 

JohnsonMBrandon

New User
Brandon Johnson
Re: Bowel Gouge?

I have heard people say that not using a bowl gouge can be dangerous when turning bowls. Not having turned a bowl before hopefully someone else will be able to shed some light on this. I would also be interested to know. I would like to turn a bowl at some point when I have time.
 

Joe Scharle

Joe
Corporate Member
Re: Bowel Gouge?

Just me; but I'd get rid of this tool ASAP!
You might list it on eBay under proctologist>tools>unique>painful
Joe

The roundnose works fine for open neck bowls. But for vases etc you would need some speciallity bowl gages.
 
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SteveColes

Steve
Staff member
Corporate Member
Re: Bowel Gouge?

I just realized that I left the title spelled wrong:rolf: :rolf: :rolf: :crybaby2: :rolf: :crybaby2:
'
No wonder no one took this thread seriously:rolf: :rolf: :crybaby2: :crybaby2:
 

Big Mike

New User
Mike
Steve, you use a bowl gouge on both the outside and the inside. By far the most efficient way to hollow out the inside of a bowl is to use the bowl gouge. It is true that an entire bowl can be turned with scrapers but it is very inefficient to do so. Scrapers are more typically used to eliminate ridges and humps left by the bowl gouge. On the exterior of the bowl a scraper can be used but a bowl gouge ground with a swept back grind typically called the Irish or Ellsworth grind makes a scraper unnecessary. I showed David F. how to use the gouge as a scraper and he was able to finish the outside of the bowl with minimal scraping with a normal scraper and minimal sanding.

I will attach a picture of the grind I am referring to....

You have to have a Wolverine type jig and a vari-grind jig either purchased or made to grind this tool in this fashion. It is easy to grind with those tools.
 
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DavidF

New User
David
Big Mike said:
Steve, you use a bowl gouge on both the outside and the inside. By far the most efficient way to hollow out the inside of a bowl is to use the bowl gouge. It is true that an entire bowl can be turned with scrapers but it is very inefficient to do so. Scrapers are more typically used to eliminate ridges and humps left by the bowl gouge. On the exterior of the bowl a scraper can be used but a bowl gouge ground with a swept back grind typically calle the Irish or Ellsworth grind makes a scraper unnecessary. I showed David F. how to use the gouge as a scraper and he was able to finish the outside of the bowl with minimal scraping with a normal scraper and minimal sanding.

I will attach a picture of the grind I am referring to....

You have to have a Wolverine type jig and a vari-grind jig either purchased or made to grind this tool in this fashion. It is easy to grind with those tools.
Using the Big Mike patented "pull cut" I don't recall that we used a normal scraper on the outside at all. Just went straight from the bowl gouge to sanding. On the inside we had minimal scraping.
 

SteveColes

Steve
Staff member
Corporate Member
Big Mike said:
Steve, you use a bowl gouge on both the outside and the inside. By far the most efficient way to hollow out the inside of a bowl is to use the bowl gouge. It is true that an entire bowl can be turned with scrapers but it is very inefficient to do so. Scrapers are more typically used to eliminate ridges and humps left by the bowl gouge. On the exterior of the bowl a scraper can be used but a bowl gouge ground with a swept back grind typically called the Irish or Ellsworth grind makes a scraper unnecessary. I showed David F. how to use the gouge as a scraper and he was able to finish the outside of the bowl with minimal scraping with a normal scraper and minimal sanding.

I will attach a picture of the grind I am referring to....

You have to have a Wolverine type jig and a vari-grind jig either purchased or made to grind this tool in this fashion. It is easy to grind with those tools.
I think I can do that with my Tormek and it special jig
 

Big Mike

New User
Mike
Yes, of course you can duplicate that grind with the Tormek. I don't have one so I overlook that as an option. The only thing is after a while you will find that regrinding a bowl gouge as often as you might be regrinding one is a little slow on the Tormek. A regular bench grinder with white, pink or blue aluminum oxide wheels is much faster. The edge from the Tormek is better but is much slower to grind. IMHO.
 

Monty

Monty
Corporate Member
Good info from Big Mike. The only thing I might add is that actually using a bowl gouge with a grind like this may not be self-explanatory. I would really recommend getting your hands on Ellsworth's videos so you can understand how this grind is intended to be used. Even better, get someone with experience to show you how to use it, and your learning curve will be much more enjoyable!
 

JRD

New User
Jim
Steve:

I'll echo Big Mike.

I use mine both inside and outside the bowl, but taking it one step further, "Whatever you feel comfortable with, and works, is ok!"

Jim
 

SteveColes

Steve
Staff member
Corporate Member
My whole question was based on the the idea that I was going to try Goblet. In my innocence, it seemed to me that shaping the cup of the goblet was the same as the bowl. But the instructions didn't call for a bowl gouge. So I was trying to understand when to use a bowl gauge and when to use a spindle gouge. The more questions I asked I asked the more confused I was becoming.

Finally, WG sais the magic words, grain. When you are hollowing a goblet you working the end grain. When hollowing a bowl or shaping its outside, you are working the side grain,

Is that it ?
 

Monty

Monty
Corporate Member
Yep. Bowl turning is essentially faceplate turning, while goblet turning is like spindle turning.... except you're hollowing out your spindle!
 

cskipper

Cathy
Corporate Member
I barely know anything about turning, but someone said to use the a one that you are comfortable with and gives you the results you want. While it sounds vague it is accurate. I hadn't turned anything in a while and when I was roughing the the last piece of wood to round I tried all kinds of gouges. That particular piece had a fairly deep injury in the side and I had to find one that didn't make it worse. Again, sharp is good., dull is bad.

There is a difference in cutting with and across the grain. Keep you tools sharp and experiment. I use a bowl gouge with a fingernail profile for my attempts at bowls, etc but not pens. That's because I was taught to use different tools for each in class. I don't have a tool identified as a scraper, but several tools which will work as such. I use the fingernail profiled gouge as a scraper on the outside and a gouge on the inside. I'm not great at either and find it difficult to hollow a form thats fairly deep but narrow with any tool that I have. When I get the pictures loaded of my last piece you will see that I didn't get the inside or outside as smooth as "it should be". It's a learning process. I just wanted to successfully get a piece completed. It didn't have to be perfect, I just needed to know that I could basically turn something from beginning to finish. I know what I needed to have done to have made it better. Again, a learning process. I wanted it to be perfect - don't we all? Oh well.

You can, and I recommend, watch many different people and videos of different people but the only thing you will probably find in common is to keep whatever tool you are using sharp. This means that you'll probably need to sharpen you tools several times during a project if it is larger than a pen.

Get some wood and just experiment. Try both kinds of gouges. I wouldn't recommend grinding everything one way or the other before you've used each and know what gives you the results you want.

That's my $.02 worth. Sorry for the length.
 

Big Mike

New User
Mike
Steve, for a goblet I use a spindle gouge to hollow the end grain. I use a short bevel fingernail ground spindle gouge for all my end grain work, i.e. boxes etc. In using a spindle gouge on end grain I start at the center, push the gouge in and sweep to the left with the flute pointed at somewhere around 10 or 11 o'clock. Others will use a bowl gouge going in the same direction as when turning the inside of a bowl. I just happen to prefer the spindle gouge method because I think I get a much cleaner cut as the cut is uphill and the wood fibers are supported better. This is a cut best demonstrated than described.
 

rickbw

New User
Rick Wize
If you are looking for a good DVD on how to use bowl or spindle gouges in turning bowls, check out the Jimmy Clewes "Turn it On" series. Craft Supplies has it on sale (and I believe there is a 10% coupon on videos also). This one of the best DVDs I have seen which shows closeups of the tool actually being used and Clewes does a great job explaining what he is doing. He also discusses how to grind the tool (angles, wings etc).
 
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