Where to buy very fine Scotch-Brite pads

[bash]

Does anyone know where I can buy very fine grit equivalent Scotch-Brite pads (S-VFN, S-SFN or 7447, 7448) to use between coats of finish?

I found a good description of Scotch-Brite pads with grit and steel wool 'aught' equivalents at http://academic.evergreen.edu/projects/biophysics/technotes/fabric/finish.pdf

Open to any advice on treatment between coats as I am trying to improve my finishing skills.

Thanks.

 

[TracyP]

Any auto parts supplier that deals in automotive paints. Napa, etc. Any ppg, DuPont, sickens, Sherwin Williams dealer should have the 3m brands.

 

[Robb Parker]

Wurth Wood Group, Charlotte, Raleigh

 

[BSHuff]

Klingspor has the maroon, grey, green and white pads in their store. They are about a buck a sheet that is around 6"X10". I cut them into 3 or 4 pieces. I use a lot of the grey and white. Klingspor also has some small foam backed sand paper (about .25") in fine grits that I use as well to rub out and level finishes.

I have also seen some of the steel wool alternitives at lowes in the paint section with the sanding stuff but they are not economical compared to other suppliers.

 

[ehpoole]

Woodcraft also carries green (0) through white (finer than 0000) grades of synthetic steel wool (the white is considerably finer than 0000 steel wool). I have also seen (and have) an extremely fine (about 3/4" thick) white pad that is available from Lowes -- they sell it for polishing wood floors and it seems finer still. Lowes and HD also carry 00 and 000 (gray) synthetic steel wool (check the packaging -- be careful with gray pads because they can be either 00 or 000).

Between coats you will generally want to use either the 00 (maroon or gray) or 000 (gray) pads, the 0000 equivalents (white) are considerably finer than 0000 steel wool and will not create enough of a scratch pattern to do you any good between coats -- they are really meant for polishing the final coat if you wish.

Of course, the old standby steel wool is always a finishing option as well -- particularly for oil finishes (if you don't cleanup well, water finishes will rust residual steel). If using real steel wool, 00 through 0000 can be used to scratch the previous coating, but it will go much faster if you use 00 or 000 (depending on hardness of the finish product).

You don't say what finish you are using, but for polyurethane (or water-based polycrylic) I normally use a Norton 3X 320-grit sanding sponge (which can be quickly cleaned with an eraser-like sandpaper cleaning stick). You only need to sand between coats if you are using high-gloss or if more than 24-hours have elapsed between coats.

 

[Howard Acheson]

Let me recommend that flexible non-woven media (Scotchbrite) or steel wool are poor choices for between coat abrading of flat surfaces. One of the objectives of between coat sanding is to flatten the surface. A flat surface is a primary requirement for a nice looking flat surface. Flexible media does not flatten the surface. It rides up and down over uneven surfaces. Use it only for rounded or contoured surfaces.

For between coat abrading, there is nothing better than a flat wood sandpaper backer. Being flat and rigid, it will flatten the surface. You can make your own by using a flat 3x4" board and glue on a felt surface. Or, many stores sell hard rubber sandpaper holders that work just fine.

 

[rex1927]

We use the red ones for marine varnishing.My late father always insisted sanding between every coat with sandpaper.When my older brother took over,he says build up layers using scotchbrite between coats,then sand last couple coats smooth with sandpaper.
Both methods seem to work fine.Guess it does not matter how you get there as long as results are a super shine.
Oh,My brother gets his scotchbrite pads from marine wholesaler in Wilmington.I cannot think of name of it right now.:icon_scra

 

[ehpoole]

Let me recommend that flexible non-woven media (Scotchbrite) or steel wool are poor choices for between coat abrading of flat surfaces.

I would respectfully beg to differ with the above. The purpose of a scratch coat between finishes is to create a uniform scratch pattern to improve adhesion of the next coat, not to level the coat. A rigid sanding block is about the worst way to achieve such. Flexible sanding sponges, bare sandpaper, steel wool and synthetic steel wool are by far the best ways to achieve such. These are not used for the purpose of sanding at all, solely to lay down a uniform and even scratch pattern that does not cut through the prior finish coating.

The initial leveling/flattening is performed *prior* to the application of any finish by such means as rigid sanding blocks, orbital and random orbital or jitterbug/in-line sanders, thicknessing sanders, etc. The goal being to uniformly level all flat surfaces before applying any finish (or nothing more than a sanding sealer). Individual coats of finish are far too thin to effectively flatten and a highly inefficient means by which to overcome poor surface preperation. More importantly, where stains or tints have been used such sanding risks sanding through the finish and surface stain or tint -- a big no-no unless you enjoy that 'splotchy' look. :wink_smil

When doing high-gloss finishes where absolute flatness and smoothness of the finish coat is essential one first flattens the bare wood, then builds up a relatively thick coat (say 3-5 coats) of finish (with only scratch sanding between coats), then sands the built up coat to abosolute flatness and smoothness. If a higher gloss (or the removal of witness or scratch lines) is then needed a thin (wipe on, spray, etc.) finish would then be applied over this now perfectly flattened and smoothed finish. This approach is far more practical and avoids any risk of damaging stains or tint coats.

No amount of finishing effort will make up for poor initial surface preperation.

 

[jhreed]

If Howard Acheson ever teaches a course in finishing, I want to be the first one to sign up.

 

[Howard Acheson]

Between coat abrading to improve adhesion is not required for lacquer and shellac finishes. Evaporative finishes sort of "melt" into the prior coat forming a homogenous film. If there is some defect in the prior film, then abrading is necessary to fix the surface but not for adhesion.

Similarly, oil based varnishes do not need to be abraded for adhesion if a subsequent coat is applied with 10-12 hours. During that time an oil based finish is going through its oxidation phase of curing and a subsequent coat will closely meld with the underlying coat.

One way to verify this is to try the industry accepted adherence test. On a board properly prepared, apply two coats of finish with scuff sanding between coat. Let them fully dry for 4-5 days. Now on one section apply a coat of finish without abrading and on another section abrade the surface and apply a coat. Let them dry 4-5 days. Now use an exacto knife and gently cut a 1/10" cross hatch one inch square. You should end up with 100 1/10th inch squares. Apply a piece of 3M brand scotch type and press it down. Now lift the tape and count how many squares had the finish lifted. If more than 1 or 2 are lifted, the adhesion was reduced.

The idea for between coat sanding is to establish and maintain a flat surface. This is particularly true of brushed on finishes. Skilled and experienced spray finishers can general apply a flat and even coat that does not need flattening.