Pump for Vacuum Chuck

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arcwick08

New User
arcwick08
I searched pretty thoroughly for this and couldn't find another thread soo...

Looking for input on a pump to use with a Vacuum chucking system. I'd rather not use one of the voodoo venturi compressed air do jobbers.

The options I see are as follows - looking for any advice...


  1. Pay craft supply $500 (excuse me?!) for the vacuum pump they've got
  2. Get the Gast 0522 off ebay used for ~$150
  3. Get a vac pump from harbor freight for $99 new. Reviews seem to indicate it will pull nearly 30 inches of mercury...http://www.harborfreight.com/25-cfm-vacuum-pump-98076.html

I don't know a ton about vacuum generation, though I know the basics. Would that HF pump 'work' for a chucking system?
 

Hmerkle

Board of Directors, Development Director
Hank
Staff member
Corporate Member
Following this thread - because "inquiring minds want to know!"
 

nn4jw

New User
Jim
My initial observation is that the HF pump is 2.5 cfm compared to the Gast at 4.5 cfm. The HF won't have any filtration to keep dust out. The HF is really intended for automotive air conditioning work. I don't know that it would really hold up for vacuum chucking.
 

Charlie

Charlie
Corporate Member
I have been using a "voodoo venturi compressed air do jobber" for about 5 years. It has done anything that I have asked it to do. Sometimes too much when I imploded a bowl.
$269 gets you the Hold Fast Vacuum Chuck System from Hartville Tool. It sure beats trying to build your own system and certainly is less costly. It is a very compact unit.
Just saying what works for me.
 

arcwick08

New User
arcwick08
Thanks Charlie.... I have no real solid reason for trying to avoid using one, just a concern about over taxing my compressor, maybe?
In real-world application, how much strain does it put on your compressor? What sort of compressor are you using? I've got a makita mac700 and assumed it would just run non-stop when used to generate vacuum...
 

arcwick08

New User
arcwick08
Just found this video from the guy at Harrison Specialties:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ8ObYmph8M

I think it's more a demo of his chuck product, but he seems to be using one of the AC-draining type pumps without any issue. Perhaps this would work after all... I believe a chuck could be made from some bearings, lamp rod and epoxy and foam instead of using the premade holdfast kit. I think I'll talk to the war department and see if I can get authorization to pick up one of the pumps from amazon.
 

KenOfCary

Ken
Staff member
Corporate Member
I have seen Charlies system in action and it works very well. Will probably try to duplicate it when I'm ready to set one up. Not sure what size compressor he has, I think it is under the floor so haven't seen it.
 

DanR

New User
Dan
I have all the parts for mine, but have not built it yet. The pump I bought was $50 on ebay. Search for a Thomas 2650 or 2660 . I got mine from a guy in Kentucky, for some reason my phone won't paste links today.

If you search for a video from "bruised brothers" there is a good discussion about this topic.
 

Phil S

Phil Soper
Staff member
Corporate Member
I have had two of the Harbor Freight units - the first one ran twenty minutes and the second made it 30 minutes. Never again.
I am going with the Hold-Fast system hooked up to my 60 gallon 3hp compressor, I expect very short compressor runs
 

Charlie

Charlie
Corporate Member
I have a 7 1/2 HP/60 Gal compressor, so I never notice it running while using the vacuum chuck.
The Hold Fast specs says it consumes 2.5 CFM @ 55-65 PSI.

I looked at the beginning of that video. Once I saw the machined chuck I turned it off. I'm certain the machined chuck would cost more than the completed Hold Fast system.

I also would be concerned about turning a piece @ 1000 RPM on a chuck made from some bearings, lamp rod and epoxy and foam. I have seen photos/videos of home made chucks made from PVC, etc., but that isn't for me.

Again, just my opinion.
 

arcwick08

New User
arcwick08
I have a 7 1/2 HP/60 Gal compressor, so I never notice it running while using the vacuum chuck.
The Hold Fast specs says it consumes 2.5 CFM @ 55-65 PSI.

I looked at the beginning of that video. Once I saw the machined chuck I turned it off. I'm certain the machined chuck would cost more than the completed Hold Fast system.

I also would be concerned about turning a piece @ 1000 RPM on a chuck made from some bearings, lamp rod and epoxy and foam. I have seen photos/videos of home made chucks made from PVC, etc., but that isn't for me.

Again, just my opinion.

Again, my concern on the holdfast is compressor duty. If that load is correct it isn't bad, but I don't know if I'd want my compressor on slow leak like that... must think on it.

The machined aluminum chuck is a bit much, for me. I just thought it interesting that he was using the oil style pump with success.

Different strokes for different folks, as they say. Most of my lathe fixtures are homemade and it works for me, not so for some people.
What chucks do you use? The ones from holdfast??
 

Hmerkle

Board of Directors, Development Director
Hank
Staff member
Corporate Member
Again, my concern on the holdfast is compressor duty. If that load is correct it isn't bad, but I don't know if I'd want my compressor on slow leak like that... must think on it.

The machined aluminum chuck is a bit much, for me. I just thought it interesting that he was using the oil style pump with success.

Different strokes for different folks, as they say. Most of my lathe fixtures are homemade and it works for me, not so for some people.
What chucks do you use? The ones from holdfast??
Those robinair ones are REALLY good - like Phil pointed out - you can get a lemon with an "off-breed" version.

I made my vacuum chuck from a PVC reducer, chucked it on the lathe, and cut a groove for the gasket to fit in (there are replacement gaskets available at Woodcraft [and probably elsewhere] but I have not put the vacuum to it yet...)

I think you might be right about the compressor duty - but you could get an auxiliary tank since we need volume, right???
 

arcwick08

New User
arcwick08
Those robinair ones are REALLY good - like Phil pointed out - you can get a lemon with an "off-breed" version.

I made my vacuum chuck from a PVC reducer, chucked it on the lathe, and cut a groove for the gasket to fit in (there are replacement gaskets available at Woodcraft [and probably elsewhere] but I have not put the vacuum to it yet...)

I think you might be right about the compressor duty - but you could get an auxiliary tank since we need volume, right???

I've got a great book (it's made of paper and everything!) all about chucking and it's got a great section on homebrew vacuum chucking. I'll get the title here in a minute...
Harbor Junk has the 5gallon auxiliary air containers for $25.00 too...
 

jhreed

james
Corporate Member
Gast is an industrial vacuum pump. We use them in the plywood plant for suction cup panel transfer stations. I think Hydraulic & Pneumatic sales in Charlotte is the distributor.
 

bob vaughan

Bob Vaughan
Senior User
I've been using a Gast 3/4 HP for years. They're right about the CFM movement being important. Wood is porous. Vacuum rigs are good for finish detailing the bottom of bowls and other things where you don't want screw holes. For bowls, I'll wipe a thin coat of finish (usually precat lacquer) before I remove the bowl from the chuck. This gives a good film to diminish the air flowing through and lessening the hold. Air pressure only holds so well on small things.
 

ehpoole

Moderator
Ethan
Thanks Charlie.... I have no real solid reason for trying to avoid using one, just a concern about over taxing my compressor, maybe?
In real-world application, how much strain does it put on your compressor? What sort of compressor are you using? I've got a makita mac700 and assumed it would just run non-stop when used to generate vacuum...

There are two ways to use a Venturi: 1) continuously (which places a constant load on the compressor, but does not necessarily run the compressor 100% of the time) or 2) with a vacuum reservoir (chamber) and a pressure switch (plus a check valve and solenoid valve) in which case the Venturi only runs when there is insufficient vacuum pressure (placing an intermittent load in your compressor). In the second case the duty cycle will depend entirely upon how much air is leaking past your workpiece and seals as that will determine how many CFM of vacuum must be generated to maintain the desired vacuum pressure.

The second advantage of option 2 is that you may, in theory, get some warning if impending failure as increased air leakage will increase the duty cycle of the Venturi, which might tip you off to failure. However, if I were using one for turning I would probably add a pressure switch that opens its contacts if the vacuum pressure drops more than a couple inches below the target level with those contacts wired to a contactor wired to interrupt power to my lathe (if I had a lathe) so as to bring things to an emergency stop as quickly as possible if an air leak develops. Coupled with a large vacuum reservoir you might just get enough warning, especially if your lathe has an E-stop brake that can be activated (or one could apply DC power momentarily to an induction motor to provide supplemental braking). If it seems a little paranoid it is probably because the thought if a large hunk if wood spinning at several hundred RPM suddenly detaching makes me a little paranoid (but, then, I'm not a turner)!

Whether the Venturi is a strain on your air compressor depends heavily on your air compressor's specifications and whether it is rated continuous duty (many larger units are continuous duty if using synthetic oil). You do not want to use a large Venturi with a small portable air compressor but if you have a large stationary compressor then it can be a good candidate for a Venturi application -- I have a 4HP 80gal compressor (14 CFM at 90 PSI). Every Venturi has a recommended operating pressure (do not exceed this pressure or efficiency will drop) and a stated CFM draw on your compressor at that recommended pressure. You can use this information to calculate your compressor's approximate duty cycle beforehand if you like and take that into consideration in your designs.

When looking at vacuum pumps for your application focus more on the CFM curve for your desired level of vacuum, not on the maximum vacuum attainable . Going off memory here, my recollection is that you will want to maintain at least 20-24" of vacuum to maintain a firm grip on your workpiece so a vacuum pump with at least 26-28" will suffice (be aware that you will lose an inch, or so, to a poppet style check valve, if used) -- but too much vacuum can be destructive to your project. The more CFM the pump can move at the desired vacuum level the better it will perform in this application as that is the critical zone.

It is also a good idea to ensure there is a suitable filter before your vacuum pump to catch any debris (such as sawdust) or dirty water/sap (if using green wood) prior to the pump as mechanical pumps are especially sensitive to such waste entering them. It is still a good idea to similarly protect a Venturi, though they are far less sensitive to such waste unless it is sufficiently "sticky" as to build up on the Venturi.
 

arcwick08

New User
arcwick08
Thanks Ethan - this confirms many of my suspicions. I've got a tiny-but-mighty air compressor to drive my brad nailer and such, no where near the flow or volumes we're talking about here. Mechanical pump is going to be my solution. I'm going to grab one of the robinair 3cfm pumps and then cobble something together from parts at the blue or orange box store.

I'll do a video, or at least pictures to document the whole debacle. Sadly I've got a week of travel coming up next week, so the project may get delayed...we'll see..
 

Chemeleon

New User
Matt
Might be worth a trip to take a look at your local pawn shops for a vac pump; there's often one or two at the shops around here. I'm drawing a blank on the model of the one I bought last summer, but it was going for around $550 on amazon, and I walked out with it for $37, in perfect working condition other than some scuffs and scrapes on the casing.
 
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