Advice sought - which woodworking related ads motivate you - electronic or print?

[scsmith42]

I have expanded my lumber business to include nation wide internet sales, and am thinking of investing in either print or electronic advertising, with the goal of increasing sales and awareness of my products and company. My business is primarily focused on selling a certain species and cut of wood.

There are a myriad of ways to spend $ on advertising, the primary ones being ads in woodworking magazines such as Popular Woodworking, Wood, etc. These same publications also offer electronic advertising on their web sites.

I'm wondering what the most effective medium is and would provide the best return for my investment, and would like to receive some advice from members of the NCWoodworker community.

In terms of advertising, what motivates you? Do you frequently read and use the ads in the back of major magazines, or do you click on the links that are posted on woodworking websites, or something entirely different?

My business is listed on Woodfinder, and also comes up on Google searches for my product type (although I've recently made some changes to the meta tags that should improve my position in the search results - will take a week or two before they show up though).

Rather than potentially wasting several thousand dollars on advertising (that may not yield great results), I sure would appreciate the advice and guidance from y'all as to where you learn about online lumber sources.

Thanks much.

Scott

ps: I'm intentially not listing my business or type of product on this post. Thx.
​

 

[eyekode]

I am probably not your target market but I will throw my 2ct in. I don't pay much attention to adds. I look at the work I like and work backward from there. So if you could get your product featured in a prominent designers work it may go along way. If I ever make something exceptionally cool using your products I will make sure to give you a plug. But don't hold your breath .
Salem

 

[Rob]

I very rarely read ads in magazines, etc unless they are very, very catchy, great pictures, etc. Sale ads in email and internet usually catch my eye, not regular ads though.

 

[tmwassack]

Good Evening Scott,
I rarely view online or print ads - heck, the first thing I do to every WW magazine I subscribe to is pull all the inserted and stapled ads out and chunk them. My main resource for all things WW related is a well constructed Google search and frequent visits to my many bookmarked web sites. On most of my frequented web sites, I employ an ad block utility to improve download speeds (NCWW exempted of course).

My recommendations would be a well designed e-commerce web site, good meta-tags for the web crawlers, fresh, and frequently updated content. You already have pieces of the puzzle in place - excellent customer service and a great product!

As a side note, have you thought of also advertising on WoodWeb?

Regards,
Tom Wassack
Asheboro, NC

 

[Glennbear]

I very rarely read ads in magazines, etc unless they are very, very catchy, great pictures, etc. Sale ads in email and internet usually catch my eye, not regular ads though.

I tend to agree, if I was shopping for a particular commodity (wood) the last place I would be likely to look would be an ad in the back of a magazine. :wsmile:

 

[gator]

Personal opinion only, but then that's what you asked for - in the hobbiest magazines (such as those you mentioned) I never look at the ads in the back. I might glance at a 1/8 or 1/16 page ad in the middle of the magazine if it is in the middle of an article I'm reading, but I don't go looking for them for specific purposes. I think you might be better off in a publication like WoodShop News where a more professional demographic would catch the ad and where they may be actually looking for specific wood and cuts. And, they would be buying more per order than a hobbiest that might buy 20 - 50 bd ft.

Once again, only a personal opinion.

George

 

[hockey1]

I as well don't read too many adds. Lets face it money talks and I don't have alot of it so I typically try to buy from the local mills as they are generally cheaper than most other places. Living in New Bern I also have to add at least $30-$60 in gas to my purchase of lumber as there are not too many choices around here. Perhaps you could persuade some random tool and hardware stores to carry some your "elcusive lumber" (possibly your companies name burned into the end grain). Then if the buyers do some research they would find out that it is possible to get it direct from the supplier for a cheaper cost. Maybe after all of the what ifs happen in this scenario, you win.

Another thing that makes me curious is when I read an article in a whether it be electronic or print the author of the story indicates where they got their lumber for a project and if they were satisfied with the product and service.

In the end for me adds feel impersonal, generally I tend to lean the direction in which there have been many happy customers that I have either spoke with are have heard others reccommend to me.

 

[CrealBilly]

I'm not much on ads (print or web). Yours is an interesting question. I'm almost thinking something like a article in a architectural magazine might be your meal ticket. Your business has a good story and specialty product, that I'm sure people would love to read about.

BTW nice looking website.

 

[manfre]

Contact woodworking shows (tv and podcasts) to see if you could sponsor a project. Hobbyists will replicate the project and this could help generate demand for the wood you sell. It could also result in people looking for local sellers to avoid shipping fees. The price per bd. ft. will jump a lot when shipping is factored in. You'll need to figure out the tipping point where people think it's a large enough order to not have the shipping price not weigh in so noticeably. When you figure out that price, suggest projects that require that much wood.

 

[cskipper]

I don't often read ads either. When I get in the mood I will look up lumber sources on the internet. I build a spreadsheet and ask members of scrolling sites if they have had any experience with a particular company. Have an internet site with lots of key search words seems like better use of advertising dollars.

 

[tryingtokeepmyfingers]

"ps: I'm intentially not listing my business or type of product on this post. Thx."

with out this it is hard to give you advice but lets assume your product is lumber and wood...

the greatest thing you could do it build a website easy to navigate full of useful information that would keep me going back to for the information and in turn I would find myself buying your product cause you have gained my trust.. Manufactures and retail companies that give me value aside from selling just a product are who are winning in the market place and are the companies that will survive.

example... Newegg.com has good prices on computer and electronic components but their real value is they have more pictures more product information and have built a user base of reviews that can be trusted more often then not trusted... if Newegg did not have this then all the advertising in the world would be wasted... They get more word of mouth advertising then any amount that they could buy... The down side of this is people going to them getting there information from them and then buying someplace else cheaper but this is no different then in the days of brick and mortar but overall people are loyal when they can buy from someone they can trust and treats them fair...

example of not fair... Sprint.com when you renew your phone contract already being a customer you normally have to get a mail in rebate for the discount of the phone... but if you go to best buy you can get the same deal you could at sprint with with a instant rebate so why renew at sprint... OK sprint is still getting a user but is this how you want to treat your customers... is this how they should treat a customer to keep a customer but they sell a service that has limited vendors and choices ... word of mouth would go to best buy and best buy sells not just sprint but their competitors so a customer walking into best buy with sprint might walk out with Verizon so would it not be better for sprint to treat there customer right to begin with that's how you grow a business

so advertising would be dependent on what you are selling and if you are selling something that is a word of mouth item then you want to build a network of happy customers that will do you advertising for you... until you have this most of your advertising dollars would probably be wasted this again this all depends on what you are trying to sell

hope this helps... if my information is helpful some 8/4 cyprus would be helpful LOL

 

[joepoolplayer]

Hi Scott,

I deal with these issues on a daily basis...its my job. I've got some thoughts on how you could proceed, but it would be helpful to get a bit more info. I'm in sales, but I promise I won't try to sell you anything. If you're interested, PM me and we can connect.

Best,
Nate

 

[CarvedTones]

Scott,

In addition to making sure you show up in general searches, you should also consider the specific Shopping category. I know you generalized about product, but I need to use a product as an example. If I do a general web search for quarter sawn oak in Google, your listing may be in there but I am also going to see lots of things that are people using it or talking about it or whatever. If I am trying to find some for sale, I may click on the Shopping search. Then I will see companies that sell something specific that can appear in a product listing with a price like Rockler's lumber by the piece listings. You might want to consider listing a few somewhat standard sizes by the piece also. Often times when you click on a shopping link, it turns out to be an example of pricing with a form or email link to contact to get specific product to meet your needs. Another tactic I sometimes use is to add "price" to my search string

 

[kooshball]

Scott,

Are you trying to reach more folks like most us (primarily weekend woodworkers) in other regions or are you targeting more of the industrial side such as cabinet shops, architects, furniture shop, etc?

I believe that both targets have different paths to market and that the former relies more on endorsement than raw ad space.

For example, if I see an add for lumber in a magazine I am not likely to get excited unless it turns out to be around the corner. However if a prominent woodworking guru (Schwartz, Underhill, Norm, etc) gets a hold of some ultra-wide veneer or a 250-year old slab that you harvested, cut and dried and "endorses" you as the source, well now you have the attention and fascination of every weekend warrior who whats to follow in the foot steps of the celebrity woodworkers.

Conversely, on the industrial side you may need simple ads in key magazines as well as to attend a trade show or two. It would probably help to further focus the "industrial" segment into separate paths as well since they likely are made up of separate groups of people.

 

[ashley_phil]

traditional print ads are for the most part a waste of money. the small classified ad in woodshop news would be worth the money if you're after the "pro" crowd.

i'd focus on building a presence on facebook and buy a couple of their side banner ads before any magazine ads.

blogging and twitter are the best way to build an e-commerce site right now.

also you want to begin sending out a weekly e-newsletter with some decent content to your database of customers. you also want to start building a database of customers.

 

[CDPeters]

I'm with manfre and kooshball. I think your best option is to contact woodworking shows like Rough Cuts etc. and trying to get your product featured in a program. Offer to send them material. See if it's possible to include a short vignette ala "Rough Cuts Road Trip" where they visit your mill.

That is the type of thing that really draws my attention.

Secondly - I have recently attempted to locate local sawyers via the internet - Google searches and the like. I have found it very difficult to locate businesses in my local area that I know are there and I know are doing business, but a listing just will not show up. So the second suggestion is to consult a web guru who can give you sound advice on making sure your listing will pop near the top. The key factor there is to come up with a list of keywords/phrases that are most likely to be used when someone is searching for the product you offer. Sounds like maybe you have already taken steps in that direction.

Good luck and I hope one day on a roadtrip to be able to stop by and see your operation!

C.

 

[Bill Clemmons]

First, I agree w/ everyone else: print ads do not grab anyone's attention and are not worth the cost. If I'm looking for something specific, I search Google and zero in on what I want.

Second, getting your product used and mentioned by a prominent personality can go a long way. Ex: every time Chris Schwarz mentions a product or tool on his blog or in Popular Woodworking, there seems to be a mad rush to get it, and the price goes up. I think they even call it, "The Schwarz effect." Think what would happen if he said, "I got this incredible slab of QSWO from Scott Smith, and here's his web site" in his blog.

Third, have you considered tweaking your business model? Instead of selling small quantities retail to woodworkers, supply larger quantities wholesale to distributors or large volume users. Think of the lumber suppliers already in central NC (e.g. The Hardwood Store, Steve Wall Lumber, The Woodworking Source, etc.) who would be potential customers. They have to get their wood from someone, and I'm sure they're always looking for a better deal. Same thing w/ cabinet shops. Pros: eliminate need to advertise; sell larger volumes. Cons: Sell at lower price; have to be a "reliable" supplier of large quantities "on demand".

Bill

 

[Asheville Hardware]

traditional print ads are for the most part a waste of money. the small classified ad in woodshop news would be worth the money if you're after the "pro" crowd.

i'd focus on building a presence on facebook and buy a couple of their side banner ads before any magazine ads.

blogging and twitter are the best way to build an e-commerce site right now.

also you want to begin sending out a weekly e-newsletter with some decent content to your database of customers. you also want to start building a database of customers.

100% agree. The woodworking community on social media sites like Twitter, Facebook, and now Google + are growing rapidly. Twitter is my primary means of internet marketing currently for my personal business, Scott Meek Woodworks. I am trying to get Asheville Hardware's web and social media presence up to par as well. The thing with social media, is that you can't treat it as purely and information dump. You will only succeed in that space if you are a real person interacting there. The beauty of social media is that it's really just an extension of word of mouth advertising that has worked for years and years. It's all about relationships. If you would like to talk more about social media stuff, email me at my personal address: scott at scottmeekwoodworks.com

I would also recommend, as others have, getting your product into the hands of the high profile woodworkers. Getting mentioned in articles in the woodworking magazines and sponsoring woodworking tv shows would get my attention.

I also agree with whoever mentioned advertising in trade publications to get the pro market. Better yet, get them to do an article on you and your company!

Hopefully all the info in this thread is helpful! I know it has been for me, so thank you for starting it!

Scott

 

[PurpleThumb]

Scott, this opinion is worth exactly what you are paying for it but I agree with others, I rarely, rarely read mag ads. and if I can't find it locally, I buy on internet.

 

[CaptnA]

Scott,
I also rarely read ads in print or on line. My 'trained eye' can zip right past them. There area very few that catch my eye, usually something NOT related to their product it seems....
I shop rarely and depend on word of mouth. I solicit opinions and input from the people I trust in a given area, usually a short list.
It is a rare connection when I see an ad for something I am in the market for, and even more rare I have the money for something I am not.
Wish I could be of more help.