Hand saw for cutting dovetails: Veritas vs Lie Nielsen

[danmart77]

https://woodandshop.com/which-affor...medium=email&utm_campaign=mailpoet_latestpost


Here's a comparison of the two back-saws compared in several ways that might interest you if you are in the search mode for a good western style saw. As some of you might know, I don't use the push saw for my work so your conclusions are not going to be influenced by me if you have tried Japanese saws and you don't like cutting on the pull.

I do a good bit of hand joinery and I have found the pull cut better for me. Over the years the comparisons appear in blogs and forums like this and a discussion ensues. In my recollection, you don't hear many critics point out the saws specific use/design. Is it a rip pattern or cross cut pattern? It does make a difference.

Take a look it's a sensible comparison.

 

[Hmerkle]

Good information there!
I did not know that the Veritas saw plates were thicker than the veritas - I saw Rob Cosman present his saw and it is a 0.020 thick plate but does cut VERY well.

My thinking is the sharpening process,, saw set and TPI is significant...

 

[Chris C]

I have the Veritas fine cut dovetail saw and I'd agree that it wasn't as good out of the box as I expected. It was just ok. I eventually sharpened it and it made a huge difference.

Never used a LN so no basis for comparison....

 

[Mike Davis]

I have both and like the LN much better.

 

[KenOfCary]

They talk about kits by Tom Calisto but all I can find is a finished saw from his website. Any idea where to find the kits for sale?

 

[danmart77]

They talk about kits by Tom Calisto but all I can find is a finished saw from his website. Any idea where to find the kits for sale?

Ken I think he uses these "kits" for the classes he teaches at sites like Roy Underhill's and the other guy up in VA where the blog is generated. From the sounds of it, knowing how to sharpen these push saws seems to be a must. If the saw is lacking out of the box, its frustration from day one.

Not the first saw I have seen that just doesn't work without some sharpening. I had a veneer saw that was so dull I called the guy and he sent me an address in England and told me to grumble to them. Not very good customer service.

Looking at the saw it was easy to tell this was not a high carbon object and it would not hold an edge very long after a bunch of work. Eventually I found some steel that wasn't stainless and made a good veneer saw. Unfortunately, it had that gentleman's saw handle that just gets to you after heavy use-- good blade or not.

This is the one I have been using lately and its a comfortable saw but it too has issues. Instead of having a tool that you can change blade easily, I would rather have an aggressive tool and a precision tool ready to go. The screw points on these blades are rife with trouble. They tend to pop out after changing a bunch.

I am not so worried about rust that I need stainless blades.

Once again it seems like a "pins or tails" first discussion. I kinda wish I could go to the push or pull saw with equal precision but I can't.​

 

[BKHam]

i haven't had a LN but i had a veritas dovetail saw. i replaced it with a rob cosman which i love. before i replaced it, i had some issues with it. first, it is very light. the back is plastic. i think of playing pool....i like a heavier stick. it seems that i am better at making fine movements when something has some heft.

then i got the rob cosman which has fine teeth at the end for easy starting and it was a like a light went off. it has a composite handle which was really nicely weighted.

i'm sure the LN is great but i would not recommend the veritas.

note: nearly everything else i have from them is great.

 

[Hmerkle]

I am not so worried about rust that I need stainless blades.

Once again it seems like a "pins or tails" first discussion. I kinda wish I could go to the push or pull saw with equal precision but I can't.​

I see this is a grammercy tool (Tools for working wood)
I find it curious that they threaded the saw blade rather than a through hole in the blade and threaded into the steel backer plate???

 

[JimD]

I don't know if you can buy the kits without going to the saw making school but this website says they offer the kits:

https://windwardwoodworks.com/shop/

There is also a link where you can ask questions of Tom Calisto. They offer what looks like a finished dovetail saw for $165. That is more than I've ever spent on a hand tool - but maybe that is part of the reason I don't do a lot with hand tools.

 

[Graywolf]

I have used both the LN and the Veritas. Both are good saws, the LN is hand sharpened and hammer set, the Veritas is machine sharpened and machine set. That makes a bid difference. If you resharpen the Veritas it's as good as any saw. My personal hand saws are all antiques that have been rehabed, they work as good as any of the new saws that I have tried. All these things are subjective, and entirely up to the individuals taste, and budget. That said the use of a saw, push or pull is made up skills. These skills can be taught to anyone willing to learn and invest the practice time that it takes to master these skills. One of the things that I have learned over the past few years is people move toward or back to what they know sometimes rather than trying something new. And sometimes that includes me when comes to some things.
PS 165.00 is cheap for a saw that's ready for use. If I made one, I'd be hard pressed not to want to charge that or more. You see the alternative for dovetails is router, bits, templates and or guides, I'd be hard pressed to find all that for less than 165.00.

 

[tdukes]

I looked at both recently but went with a Japanese version that David Barron recommends with his magnetic dovetail guides. I'm a rookie so I need to cheat a little.

 

[Chris C]

My personal hand saws are all antiques that have been rehabed, they work as good as any of the new saws that I have tried. All these things are subjective, and entirely up to the individuals taste, and budget.

Amen. This is my go-to backsaw.....a nice old Disston. Cost me $5.00.

 

[Graywolf]

Amen. This is my go-to backsaw.....a nice old Disston. Cost me $5.00.

Nice!

 

[Hmerkle]

Amen. This is my go-to backsaw.....a nice old Disston. Cost me $5.00.

Chris,
Are you saying you cut your dovetails with a stolen saw?! :rotflm:

 

[Chris C]

Chris,
Are you saying you cut your dovetails with a stolen saw?! :rotflm:

Absolutely.....I certainly stole it for $5.

 

[tdukes]

Amen. This is my go-to backsaw.....a nice old Disston. Cost me $5.00.

Here's on for sale for $500

https://www.facebook.com/groups/197526887252667/?fref=nf

Looks like you have a very expensive saw now!

 

[Hmerkle]

Here's on for sale for $500

https://www.facebook.com/groups/197526887252667/?fref=nf

Looks like you have a very expensive saw now!

That is a Disston Brass back double Eagle saw (collector saw, not a user saw) the cost is still WAY too high in my opinion, but also a VERY different saw from Chris'

 

[Hmerkle]

They talk about kits by Tom Calisto but all I can find is a finished saw from his website. Any idea where to find the kits for sale?

I e-mailed Tom and asked him if I could share our "conversation" he said yes, so here it is;


Hi Hank,
I offer 3 standard kits. I have a dovetail saw kits that includes a 9" x 2" x .020" saw plate, 5/8" x 3/16" brass back and two 7/16" diameter brass saw nuts. These run $40. I have a larger back saw that has a 4" x 11" x .025" saw plate, 1/4" x 3/4" brass back and three 7/16 diameter brass saw nuts. These run $60. I also offer a panel saw kit that includes a 6"x 22" x .032" plate and three 9/16" diameter brass saw nuts. These run $60. I do offer custom sizes for my dovetail and back saw kits. I can work up a price if you have something in mind. My panel saw plates are cut on a water jet so I can't easily change the dimensions.

The blade comes toothed to your specification. I can also set and sharpen for an additional fee.

The best way to order is to contact me via email.

Tom
calistotools@gmail.com

That will be fine if you post my response on ncwoodworker.

Thanks for your interest,
Tom