Need Advice 12" Miter Saw Blade

[jfynyson]

Background

• I just purchased the new Bosch EXCM341-305GD (12" miter saw....new axial glide) and want to get a better blade than stock
• Many applications - construction grade lumber (2x4's to 2x12's to 4x4's) to cabinet grade plywood to 8/4 hardwood stock
• Non-professional use so I do not wish to spend more than $130-150 on a blade
• I do not want a thin kerf blade for worry about blade deflection on such a large diameter blade cutting hardwoods, especially if beveled cutting per others experiences
• Most forum input says to get a negative rack angle blade for safer slide cuts while others say it's not an issue and was a hold over from RAS pull cuts and others say as long as the angle is less than 10 degrees you're ok
• Many suggest alternate top bevel + 1 flat ground raker for square flat finish (if using like a dado blade I guess) but to also reduce deflection, others say it's not an issue
• Problem is I'm seeing most recommendations pointing Ridge Carbide blades to fit these specs for the price but their specs say max material thickness is 1.5" for a 72T and 1" for their 80T....
• I can of course use the stock blade from rough outdoor projects

Questions

1. Should I focus on getting a full kerf for sure or just get the lower cost thin kerf and refine any critical cuts on hardwoods using hand tools (or use the table saw) and assume deflection here won't be an issue for 3/4" plywood ?
2. Should I focus on a negative rake angle or anything 10 degrees or less ?
3. Should I focus on a ATB+1R if ever wanting to use the slider for dados or rabbets or just a ATB grind will suffice and there won't be noticeable deflection if missing that flat ground tooth ?
4. Why would Ridge Carbide blades have max material thickness of 1-1.5" many people would be cutting 8/4 stock ?
5. What are your experiences /suggestions here ?

 

[TTocs Elgoh Woodw3rks]

Jeremy,

1. Should I focus on getting a full kerf for sure or just get the lower cost thin kerf and refine any critical cuts on hardwoods using hand tools (or use the table saw) and assume deflection here won't be an issue for 3/4" plywood ? ----This is honestly more of a personal preference depending on what you're cutting and how often. I have a thin kerf 80T diablo blade on my sliding Metabo miter saw and I haven't had any issues cutting any hardwoods or plywoods. I also primarily use my miter saw to break down materials and rough cut my lumber. If you plan to incorporate yours into some joinery methods, I'd recommend the full kerf as you will have more stabilization with a thicker blade.
2. Should I focus on a negative rake angle or anything 10 degrees or less ? ----For general cutting the rake doesn't make much of a difference. A negative rake does cut cleaner, but it doesn't really have a noticeable effect on the cutting ability of the saw.
3. Should I focus on a ATB+1R if ever wanting to use the slider for dados or rabbets or just a ATB grind will suffice and there won't be noticeable deflection if missing that flat ground tooth ? ----If you do plan to cut dados or rabbets etc, yes get an ATB+1R blade. This will give you a cleaner cut and you will spend less time cleaning out the bottom of the cuts.
4. Why would Ridge Carbide blades have max material thickness of 1-1.5" many people would be cutting 8/4 stock ? ----Ridge Carbide and most other brands (quality brands) will tell you this. They specify this to optimize cutting speed; ensure the cut is clean and the primary reason is to minimize heat. More material means more teeth in the cut, which equals more friction which means more heat and possibility of burnt wood/blades. However,,,,,,,,,,keep in mind you have a sliding miter saw. This means that you can take small passes at a time in larger than specified materials to help reduce heat. It also ensures the blade and cut are cleared of any dust/debris each time you make a pass.
5. What are your experiences /suggestions here ? ---- My experiences have been to make cuts a few passes at a time. A slider operates much different than a non-slider does. If you plan to make furniture or cabinetry, go for an 80T or more blade. Also, before cutting larger materials, spray both sides of the blade with a glide coat or some sort of dry lubricant- it will make the cut easier, cleaner and helps even more with heat. Look at getting a zero clearance insert as well, it greatly reduces chip out and is an added benefit to getting cleaner cuts too.

That's all I can think of at the moment, hope it helps

-Scott

 

[ErinJ]

I'd go with a quality full-kerf 80T ATB blade and not overthink the rest. For the mix of work you're doing, a full kerf will give you a little more confidence in thicker hardwoods, while still leaving a clean finish on plywood. I've never found a slight positive hook angle to be an issue on a modern sliding miter saw, and unless you're planning to cut a lot of dados, I wouldn't make ATB+R a deciding factor. The thickness limit on the Ridge Carbide blades is probably more of a performance recommendation than a hard limit. Keep the stock blade around for framing lumber and save the premium blade for finish work

 

[Mike Davis]

I don’t use my miter saw very much so the blade I have may last the rest of my life. You are welcome to the spare blade I bought when I got the saw. I’ll have to dig it out and see what it is. Can’t really remember cause it’s been over 20 years.

 

[DSWalker]

Similar to Mike, I have several 12" blades that came with my used table saw. They had (mostly) all been recently sharpened as they still had rubber/waxy substances on the tips. I put one on my saw 8 years ago and haven't looked at them since.

You are much closer to Mike than to me (Benson, NC area), but if you are interested,.I'd be glad to snap some pics and send to you. I'd also give you one and/ or suggest you make a small donation to this site. Though, you might spend more in gas than it would take to just buy an upgraded blade.

 

[jfynyson]

Jeremy,

1. Should I focus on getting a full kerf for sure or just get the lower cost thin kerf and refine any critical cuts on hardwoods using hand tools (or use the table saw) and assume deflection here won't be an issue for 3/4" plywood ? ----This is honestly more of a personal preference depending on what you're cutting and how often. I have a thin kerf 80T diablo blade on my sliding Metabo miter saw and I haven't had any issues cutting any hardwoods or plywoods. I also primarily use my miter saw to break down materials and rough cut my lumber. If you plan to incorporate yours into some joinery methods, I'd recommend the full kerf as you will have more stabilization with a thicker blade.
2. Should I focus on a negative rake angle or anything 10 degrees or less ? ----For general cutting the rake doesn't make much of a difference. A negative rake does cut cleaner, but it doesn't really have a noticeable effect on the cutting ability of the saw.
3. Should I focus on a ATB+1R if ever wanting to use the slider for dados or rabbets or just a ATB grind will suffice and there won't be noticeable deflection if missing that flat ground tooth ? ----If you do plan to cut dados or rabbets etc, yes get an ATB+1R blade. This will give you a cleaner cut and you will spend less time cleaning out the bottom of the cuts.
4. Why would Ridge Carbide blades have max material thickness of 1-1.5" many people would be cutting 8/4 stock ? ----Ridge Carbide and most other brands (quality brands) will tell you this. They specify this to optimize cutting speed; ensure the cut is clean and the primary reason is to minimize heat. More material means more teeth in the cut, which equals more friction which means more heat and possibility of burnt wood/blades. However,,,,,,,,,,keep in mind you have a sliding miter saw. This means that you can take small passes at a time in larger than specified materials to help reduce heat. It also ensures the blade and cut are cleared of any dust/debris each time you make a pass.
5. What are your experiences /suggestions here ? ---- My experiences have been to make cuts a few passes at a time. A slider operates much different than a non-slider does. If you plan to make furniture or cabinetry, go for an 80T or more blade. Also, before cutting larger materials, spray both sides of the blade with a glide coat or some sort of dry lubricant- it will make the cut easier, cleaner and helps even more with heat. Look at getting a zero clearance insert as well, it greatly reduces chip out and is an added benefit to getting cleaner cuts too.

That's all I can think of at the moment, hope it helps

-Scott

Excellent feedback, many thanks ! I just got done making two zero cleaning inserts (one for bevel cuts and one for regular as well as a zero clearance sacrificial back fence if I ever need it.

 

[jfynyson]

I'd go with a quality full-kerf 80T ATB blade and not overthink the rest. For the mix of work you're doing, a full kerf will give you a little more confidence in thicker hardwoods, while still leaving a clean finish on plywood. I've never found a slight positive hook angle to be an issue on a modern sliding miter saw, and unless you're planning to cut a lot of dados, I wouldn't make ATB+R a deciding factor. The thickness limit on the Ridge Carbide blades is probably more of a performance recommendation than a hard limit. Keep the stock blade around for framing lumber and save the premium blade for finish work

Many thanks for the great feedback !

 

[jfynyson]

I don’t use my miter saw very much so the blade I have may last the rest of my life. You are welcome to the spare blade I bought when I got the saw. I’ll have to dig it out and see what it is. Can’t really remember cause it’s been over 20 years.

I appreciate the offer. If you get a chance to dig it out let me know what type of blade it is and I may take you up on that offer, it’s been a long time and would be great to catch up anyhow !

 

[jfynyson]

Similar to Mike, I have several 12" blades that came with my used table saw. They had (mostly) all been recently sharpened as they still had rubber/waxy substances on the tips. I put one on my saw 8 years ago and haven't looked at them since.

You are much closer to Mike than to me (Benson, NC area), but if you are interested,.I'd be glad to snap some pics and send to you. I'd also give you one and/ or suggest you make a small donation to this site. Though, you might spend more in gas than it would take to just buy an upgraded blade.

I appreciate the offer but yes, you’re a long way out there from me. Thanks anyhow !

 

[Gofor]

Preventing deflection on bevel cutting:

Make sure the work piece cannot move. If the table and/or fence is slick, consider putting some adhesive backed sandpaper on them to give added grip. Use hold-downs or clamps to secure the work. (Do not secure the "drop" side or the blade will bind in the cut). This applies to fine work. Not so much for deck building, etc.

Sharp blade. A dull blade causes much more stress. Have a designated blade for the finer work, and another one for the construction lumber work.

Feed speed. Pushing too fast will also increase blade stress, especially if "chopping" as opposed to "sliding". (Too slow will cause burning in some woods)

Let blade stop spinning before raising it out of the cut on fine work. A spinning blade pulled back through a cut can mess up that perfect slice. Even the best made saws have some deflection that will most likely occur when reversing directions.

 

[Mike Davis]

You don’t want this blade. 32 teeth general purpose construction thin kerf.

 

[jfynyson]

You don’t want this blade. 32 teeth general purpose construction thin kerf.

Ok, thanks for checking though !

 

[jfynyson]

After taking in your input it looks like there’s only one option existing that’s the 12”, 4+1 grind, negative rake angle OR one that’s just above what I wanted to pay…but that’s about it (both 80T) before hitting $200+. I know Amana makes great German blades but I’ve heard nothing of this particular blade while many recommend Ridge Carbide (USA made and good thick carbide and factory sharpening service for $26+$13 shipping)

Opt 1: An Amana ACE series MD12-816 for $135 from toolstoday.com (free shipping)
Opt 2: Ridge Carbide RS11280-1 for $168 (both Taytools free shipping & Amazon free 2 day shipping); no free shipping and $11 higher cost directly from Ridge Carbide

I think the $33 difference is worth it for good oil American made…