Digital Blade Tilt Indicator

[Alan in Little Washington]

Since Wixey is not planning to make a digital tilt unit for the tablesaw, I decided to take matters into my own hands so I wouldn't need to continuously mess with the tilt box.

I made a simple bracket for the Wixey angle gauge and attached it to my saw- now I have a bit more precision, more convenience with a continuous readout, and it is easier on my eyes and am better able to read the tilt angle.

First I removed the blade elevation lock, the hand wheel setscrew, the hand wheel, and the tilt angle pointer.

I made a wooden bracket (too lazy to make it from steel) that slips over the tilt shaft and attaches to the tilt pointer bracket by the pointer screw. I attached the pointer to the top and mounted a small piece of steel angle at the end:

Then I reinstalled the elevation crank and lock knob:

How it works:

I set the blade to 0 deg. tilt using the Wixey in the normal manner - set the Wixey on the top of the saw, zeroize it, attach it to the blade disc, and turn the tilt crank to adjust the blade to 0 deg. using the readout.

But then, however, instead of putting it aside, I place the Wixey on the little steel shelf at the end of the wooden bracket. The shelf is tilted slightly but that doesn't matter since I zeroize the Wixey again. Now both the blade and Wixey are calibrated and at 0 deg. (once adjusted, the pointer also indicates 0 deg.)

Then, using the Wixey readout, I tested it by tilting the blade to various angles, first to 22.5 deg.

the pointer also reads 22.5 deg.

Then, using the Wixey readout again, I attempted to tilt the blade to 45o but hit the stop which was either improperly adjusted or caked with dust, so I could only get 44.7 deg.

That is what the pointer reads too, at least that is what it looked like it was reading, since it is not that precise! (there is a little parallax due to the camera angle).

This worked very well, was easy to do, and required no permanent mods to the machine!!! Maybe I'll send it to the magazines as a tip.

 

[mlzettl]

Alan,

Excellent idea:thumbs_up:thumbs_up - one of those, "Why didn't I think of that?" ideas. Definitely worth a submission to one of the magazines. Thanks for posting the description and the excellent photos.

Matt

 

[ehpoole]

Since were are on the topic of the Wixey angle finder, I have a question for other posters.

I have one of the Wixeys (a few years old now) and I find it's repeatable accuracy to be extremely frustrating. I often have to re-zero and re-check my angle a half dozen or more times before I can have at least some confidence that I am actually measuring 90.0deg (and even then a good quality engineer's square will often show atleast some error if I follow up with such).

In principle it should be an exceptionally useful device, but its constant introduction of a random +/- 0.4deg error range from one measurement to the next is exceptionally frustrating! Anyone who has ever tried to make tight corners in moldings and segments or panel glueups is accutely aware of how big a deal a potential half-degree error per joint can be!

What have other's experiences been with the Wixey angle finder (or the Beall knockoff)? Thanks in advance for anyone kind enough to offer their experiences.

PS - Kudos for your ingenuity.

 

[ScottM]

Great idea. Thanks for sharing.

 

[bwat]

Excellent! Thanks for the tip!:icon_thum

 

[jhreed]

Great idea, professional execution. The bracket looks like it was manufactured in a state of the art factory from steel. If you had not disclosed that you made it from wood, no one would have known.
James

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

Since were are on the topic of the Wixey angle finder, I have a question for other posters.

I have one of the Wixeys (a few years old now) and I find it's repeatable accuracy to be extremely frustrating. I often have to re-zero and re-check my angle a half dozen or more times before I can have at least some confidence that I am actually measuring 90.0deg (and even then a good quality engineer's square will often show at least some error if I follow up with such).

In principle it should be an exceptionally useful device, but its constant introduction of a random +/- 0.4deg error range from one measurement to the next is exceptionally frustrating! Anyone who has ever tried to make tight corners in moldings and segments or panel glueups is accutely aware of how big a deal a potential half-degree error per joint can be!

What have other's experiences been with the Wixey angle finder (or the Beall knockoff)? Thanks in advance for anyone kind enough to offer their experiences.

PS - Kudos for your ingenuity.

Ethan,

It is possible you have bad unit- send an email to Wixey and I'll bet they will send you a new one.

My unit is sensitive and repeatable, but . . . it is so sensitive and the floor on my second story shop is flexible enough, that my readings will change +/- .1 deg. (never more than that) depending on where I stand - to the right or left of the blade. The same thing happens if I lean on the left or right side of the table!!! Truthfully, it is that sensitive and repeatable.

One time I left my unit on my mitersaw blade- when I turned it on- it went flying- it is a bit beat up but still works fine, however the sensor in these things is susceptible to shock damage! Many brands of these units are made in the same factory which is turning them out by the thousands, so with that kind of volume it is not inconceivable that you could have a faulty one.

I have done beta testing for Barry Wixey in the past and regularly correspond with him. He is an up-front guy- he'll make it right (and you won't need to mention my name unless you want to).

 

[Charles Lent]

I've had a Wixey tilt gauge since they first came out and am very satisfied with it's accuracy and the way that it works, although I sometimes have to zero it a couple of times before it reads true zero. I usually place it on the saw's table and zero it, then place it on the side of the saw blade. Then I tilt the blade to the desired setting, lock it at that angle and return the Wixey gauge to my tool drawer. I really don't see why this is so difficult for some. Other than the need to maybe push the zero button a couple of times to set zero it's been a very easy procedure, and this way eliminates any errors that could be caused by the saw machinery or the position of the saw.

By doing it the way that I do, I'm always comparing the saw's table (where the board rides) to the blade angle, so there is no chance for accumulated error. Even if I move my saw on my uneven floor my board still gets cut at the correct angle. How rigid is your tilt indicator bracket? If it gets bumped while setting the saw height or angle could it induce an error in your setting? How about if you move your saw?

Just constructive criticism.

Charley

 

[zapdafish]

Thats a pretty cool idea.

One thing with the Wixey is I have to make sure the surface I zero it on is saw dust free as well as the blade I am trying to adjust and then the magnetic contracts on the bottom of it. One piece of sawdust in the wrong place can really throw everything off.

My experience with it has been the same as Charley. I am really suprised at the .4 deg of error you are seeing as well.

 

[SteveHall]

I have one of the Wixeys (a few years old now) and I find it's repeatable accuracy to be extremely frustrating....In principle it should be an exceptionally useful device, but its constant introduction of a random +/- 0.4deg error range from one measurement to the next is exceptionally frustrating!

Ethan, I don't see this with my (one year old) Wixey. What I have found is that various places on my "flat" cast table saw or jointer beds vary as much as 0.2 degrees. So when I position the Wixey for a zero reference, I make sure to locate it at the exact same spot each time and that it is clean and completely free of dust. I've also gone around measuring my squares, straight edges, and other surfaces that I used to think were flatter than they are. The reality is that most of my instruments vary more than I realized.

Did the error just recently start appearing? If so, perhaps the device really is malfunctioning.

 

[Canuck]

Excellent idea there, Alan!:icon_cheers:icon_cheers

Wayne

 

[Gofor]

Good Idea! and I think worthy of submittal to a magazine. :icon_thum:icon_thum

One possible error your method eliminates vs attaching it to the saw blade is that on the blade it has to be truly perpendicular to the table to be accurate. If not, it will measure the compounded angle when setting the bevel. And it is very easy for the wixey's weight to cause the blade to rotate.

Your mount takes that uncertainty out of the equation.

Go

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

Great idea, professional execution. The bracket looks like it was manufactured in a state of the art factory from steel. If you had not disclosed that you made it from wood, no one would have known.
James

I prettied it up with some black paint! :wsmile: :wsmile:

 

[ehpoole]

My hybrid (Steel City) saw is located on a concrete garage floor (which is still a solid slab), so I don't think I can blame the error on the floor. I always place the Wixey on the same section of my tablesaw (a section I know to be very flat) next to the blade, and on the same spot of the blade. However, if I set it on the tablesaw, zero it after a few seconds, place it on the blade and dial in an angle, then set the unit back onto the same exact spot on the table, what should register as 0.0deg will nearly always register as 0.0 +/- 0.4 deg... and if I then place it back onto the same spot on the blade, it will also typically have varied from its original measurement by 0.0 +/- 0.3deg. I am careful not to ever lean on the saw during a measurement since I know that can throw off a device such as the Wixey.

For my Wixey unit, the error has been pretty consistent since it was brand new. However, it was a gift item and I did not have a receipt for it or I probably would have done a return had I had a receipt. I always keep a brush next to my tablesaw and always wipe any remaining dust off the tablesaw and blade prior to any measurement that could be affected by dust. Like some other posters, I always keep my Wixey safe in a drawer between uses (as I do with all of my precision measurement tools), so I can guarantee that my unit has never been subjected to a drop or shock during its life in my shop (I'm pretty anal about taking good care of my tools -- especially anything where precision is essential).

The Steel City saw is a hybrid cabinet saw with cabinet mounted trunions. While the trunions certianly are not as robust as, say, an Industrial Saw Stop or top of the line Powermatic, they are nonetheless fairly substantial (for more so than a jobsite or contractors saw). Typically, if I 'bump' the trunion against either the 90deg or 45deg stops I can count on being within +/- 0.05deg to 0.1deg depending on whether I lightly bump the stop or do so more forcefully.

I appreciate others responses with regard to the repeatable accuracy of their Wixey's so I will probably take Alan's advice and try contacting Wixey to see if they would be willing to help.

I really appreciate everyone's feedback on this issue and I apologize, Alan, for highjacking your thread -- your solution really is quite ingenious and I really appreciate your sharing it with us.

PS - Alan, I really loved the recent article showing of your shop -- I can only dream of having a shop like yours one of these days. I especially liked your second floor lift solution.

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

Yup, sounds like a defective unit. Send Wixey an email.

 

[sushinutnc]

Thought I'd add my Wixey experience. I've only had mine for a little over a year, but cannot believe how I lived without it before. I have a 1950s ShopSmith with its notoriously weak trunnions/tie bar table assembly. The table tilts, rather than the blade. Unfortunately, the table is also aluminum, so I have to improvise to make the Wixey stick while tilting the table.

re: precision-- I note that almost every time I use it, I have to rezero several times until it's stable (not unusual for any digital instrument). Once I get a zero, I rarely have a precision error of more than 0.1°. I note on the Wixey site, that they state its repeatability is ±0.1°. (Repeatability is essentially the expected error for a single operator over several measurements).

Also, as Mark (Gofor) mentioned, the compounded angle issue has been a major source of repeatability problems for me, especially with my aluminum table. I have to zero on my blade, then move it to the table. I try to make sure the Wixey is perpendicular to the table and "top-dead-center" on the blade. If I'm not careful, I often get repeatability > 0.3-0.5° (by either moving to a non-perpendicular position on the table and back to an off-angle spot on the blade or after the blade has moved slightly). If this happens, I slow down and rezero/remeasure. I'll get ≤ 0.1° almost always after that.

 

[petebucy4638]

I have tried a few digital gauges over the year with mixed success. I still have a digital level in the garage that I paid too much for years ago. The problem was getting it to repeat angles consistently. For this sort of device to work right you have to set your table saw table perfectly level or it will not give you the exact reading of the blade relative to the table. The device is indexing to level, not your saw table.

I adjust the blade stops to 45 and 90 degrees. The index on the saw gets me pretty close to where I want to be. Then I use a jig to set the exact angle. It would be great if you could use a digital gauge to dial in an angle and the blade height too.

Pete

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

I have tried a few digital gauges over the year with mixed success. I still have a digital level in the garage that I paid too much for years ago. The problem was getting it to repeat angles consistently. For this sort of device to work right you have to set your table saw table perfectly level or it will not give you the exact reading of the blade relative to the table. The device is indexing to level, not your saw table.

You really don't need to level your tablesaw, it can be titled quite a bit, but . . . for the gauge to be as precise as it is capable, any tilt created by the floor must be in the direction of the arbor, otherwise you are trying to measure a compound angle. The beauty of the little tilt gauges is you zero it out on the table top which should be your reference no matter what you use to set the blade! Another thing you can't have with a sensitive digital unit is a tablesaw that rocks. My second story shop floor flexes a little so I must be careful where I stand when I set the blade- the flexing floor can make a difference of + / - .1 deg. in my gauge as does leaning on the table itself.

I adjust the blade stops to 45 and 90 degrees. The index on the saw gets me pretty close to where I want to be. Then I use a jig to set the exact angle. It would be great if you could use a digital gauge to dial in an angle and the blade height too.

Pete[/QUOTE]

It takes a separate unit, but Wixey and others do have digital height measuring units. I've talked to Barry Wixey about the issues involved in integrating these features in a tablesaw a few times- the problem is there are so many different models. He would be more than willing to design and sell or license such units to a saw manufacturer. Integral height measuring is possible, but a little more difficult than measuring tilt angle. The device would need some computational capability and be programmed with a Trig function to account for changes in blade height due to blade tilt. Blade tip design would also have an effect on this.