Darkening oak

[cpowell]

I am finally getting to a point where I can assemble the lower carcass on my gun cabinet. The client/friend told me that his existing furniture is oak with a dark stain. I don't know what that means? I'd like to produce some samples from scrap for him to take and compare with what he has at the house.

I am not a stain user. All of my work has been natural wood (or painted) with Watco danish oil, seal-a-cell, wipe on poly (yuk). Exotic woods shellac or lacquer.

I am thinking that the "rising" portion of the panels will absork more stain than the long grain surfaces. Any way to even that out?

So...any advice on how to achieve a graduated scale of dark for samples? What products should I consider? Stain...dye...other?

Chuck

I was initially thinking spray lacquer for finish but am wondering if something like Arm R Seal would be less trouble.

 

[woodnick]

If it is white oak I would state with fuming. The darkness can be controlled with length of time in the fluming tent.

 

[Kyle]

be very careful with ammonia but that would give you superb color control.

 

[cpowell]

Should have specified, RED oak. :lol: :lol:

He said his furniture is stained to kind of a brownish color. He's probably gonna drop by after work tomorrow and I'll show him what I've gotten done. Hopefully a dry assembled carcass!

I thought with stain it's a once over process. Subsequent coats don't work because the grain is already sealed, right?

I have heard mention of dyes and toners here and don't know the difference. I realize I will have to play with them to learn but at least know where to begin.

Chuck

 

[Travis Porter]

I have been a stain boy in the past. Trying to get away from it.

The BORG has color samples of red oak stained with Minwax. I have used minwax in the past with good results. I would even guess that their oak furniture was stained as oak is very easy to stain. I will even venture to guess that the color of stain used is Minwax early american. BTW, I would recommend the oil base over the water base as it is easier to work with. I have used water based finishes over top of the oil stain with no issues. Just be sure to let the stain dry a few days.

As for the end grain absorbing more, that is a definite. I remember an earlier post by WG (which I agree with and have done) is to sand the end grain to 1 or 2 grits higher than the rest of the project. So, if you sand the majority of it to 120, sand the end grain portions to 150 or 180.

Last suggestion, if you can, I would stain the panels before assembly. It makes it a whole lot easier, and if they shrink you don't have to worry about exposed unstained edges.

FWIW and I am thinking this is the way, dyes can be used as toners. You would put them on top of a previous sealer coat. For example, seal the wood with shellac, mix some dye with finish, and spray it on and that is toner.

 

[mshel]

Chuck,

As I work on lots of older pieces and have to mix stains to match, my suggestion is to get some artist pigments and some terps and mix to match. If you get a couple of the basic colors you can mix them to get a lot of varying colors.

Burnt Umber
Van Dyke brown
Burnt Sienna
Raw Umber
Raw Sienna
just to name a few.

I can get most of the shades I need by using varying amounts of burnt umber with terps to thin. If you are uncertain, stop by and we can play with some scraps to get the shade the client is wanting.

MIke

 

[cpowell]

Chuck,

As I work on lots of older pieces and have to mix stains to match, my suggestion is to get some artist pigments and some terps and mix to match. If you get a couple of the basic colors you can mix them to get a lot of varying colors.

Burnt Umber
Van Dyke brown
Burnt Sienna
Raw Umber
Raw Sienna
just to name a few.

I can get most of the shades I need by using varying amounts of burnt umber with terps to thin. If you are uncertain, stop by and we can play with some scraps to get the shade the client is wanting.

MIke

Mike, I KNOW that you tried to explain this approach the last time I visited you but I seem to have extreme CRS when it comes to finishing. I now remember you opening your paint locker and showing some of the colors. I also remember you saying some of it is wipe on/wipe off, some gets mixed and sprayed. I would like a basic lesson and have plenty of scraps to practice on from messing with RP setup. FINALLY got it sorted out!

Chuck

 

[DavidF]

Just a point about pigment stains as a toner - they do fill up and mask the grain. How about a dye stain?

 

[McRabbet]

I've had good experience with Behlen's Solar-lux, a Non-Grain Raising Stain. I used their Cherry stain on a Maple veneer table and then top coated it with 3 coats of Behlen Rockhard Tabletop Varnish and it worked very well. They offer many colors and a Reducer to change the dye intensity.

Rob

 

[adowden]

Chuck,

You may want to pay particular attention to the color the more open grains are in the sample as compared to the base stain. Like Travis, I have used several minwax stains on red and white oak. I like early american because the open grain is just darker than the base brown. Some of the stains like special walnut made the open grain look almost a "sick greenish brown" to me. I have used multiple coats to change the darkness slightly. Good luck!