Thickness Planer Question

[Matt]

I was hoping someone could help me. I have some lumber that I need to smooth out while maintaining a uniform thickness. I was thinking that a thickness planer would do the job and be a good purchase for the shop (I don't have a jointer - I use my router table to joint edges when I need to).

However, I read that you have to joint one face of a board first to keep from having a cupped board even after planing. Why couldn't you just run the board through alternating sides to get a uniform thickness AND have it flat?

When I have bought lumber, they only run the boards through the planer. Is this because they are lazy, because they have a super dooper industrial planer, or because I am right in thinking you can get flat boards without necessarily jointing??

Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

 

[stoneskippers]

The way I prep boards if the wood doesn't have any major flaws is to use the planer to flatten both sides by making alt. passes on each side till I get it close to the thickness I want. Next it to use the jointer to square one edge to one of the planed sides. Now your ready to cut it the withe you want and to plane it to the thickness wanted.

 

[SteveColes]

I was hoping someone could help me. I have some lumber that I need to smooth out while maintaining a uniform thickness. I was thinking that a thickness planer would do the job and be a good purchase for the shop (I don't have a jointer - I use my router table to joint edges when I need to).

However, I read that you have to joint one face of a board first to keep from having a cupped board even after planing. Why couldn't you just run the board through alternating sides to get a uniform thickness AND have it flat?

When I have bought lumber, they only run the boards through the planer. Is this because they are lazy, because they have a super dooper industrial planer, or because I am right in thinking you can get flat boards without necessarily jointing??

Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

I don't think you need to edge joint, but 1 face has to be flat, already, so usually, you face joint one side until it is flat, then you can plane the other face flat to thickness.

 

[stoneskippers]

I alway edge joint boards that I buy that are not that are not at a uniform thickness and withe especially if I I buy them them rough cut, dry kiln or air dried. Sometimes if you are changing good bit of the thickness it might not hurt to check the edges to the face.

 

[Joe Scharle]

However, I read that you have to joint one face of a board first to keep from having a cupped board even after planing. Why couldn't you just run the board through alternating sides to get a uniform thickness AND have it flat?

The feed rollers will press the cup/wind/twist out of the piece as it passes under the cutter, but when the board comes out, it's just thinner with the same cup/wind/twist it had going in. A long piece with a noticible cup/wind/twist will often lose most of the cup/wind/twist if cut/ripped into smaller sizes. You can "cut the muscle" out of it.
You can take off the 'high' sides with a hand plane too.
Joe

 

[Ozzie-x]

To get a board absolutely flat, you just about have to joint one face one the jointer before going to the planer. Particularly on big planers, the pressure rollers will mash the bow or twist out of the board as it infeeds, and it will spring back once it come out of the planer. For boards wider than the jointer, I've found that surface sanders do pretty good at flattening boards maybe because they don't have a lot of pressure on the rollers plus you have to make light passes anyway. If you have a planer and no jointer, and don't have plans for a jointer soon, you might want to consider a #7 or #8 hand plane to do the first face sides before sending it through the planer. Probably pick up a nice #7 or #8 for $50 - $100. Just my $0.02
My Best
Randy

 

[walnutjerry]

Matt, there is only 1 way to get all 4 sides flat and square to each other---------start by facing one face of the board then proceed to the planer to get the other face parallel to it. Otherwise what ever twist may be in the board will be there when it comes out of the planer. It really does not matter if you edge joint and rip before or after going to the planer.

 

[froglips]

I noticed you mentioned jointing with your router table.

In that case, you might look at some of the shop-made router planer jigs.

The gist is a router sled that straddles your stock.

It can take a long time, but hey, sometimes money and time are not related.

Jim

 

[walnutjerry]

Hello Mike-------I agree with you , been there done that. There is also a way to face a board on a jointer that is wider than the jointer. Explanation gets a little lengthy but I will post it if any one is interested. The issue I was seeing in Matt's post was whether to face before planing or not. I still stand with the fact it needs to be done before planing regardless of the method used to face the board. Your method shows you are resourceful and that is a good quality to have. Cheers, Jerry

 

[michaelgarner]

No worries friend, if all you can do right now is get a planer get it, make a bed the same width as your planer that has shims along the length of it (I bealive there was a finewoodworking magazine with this jig in it) shim the board level with a level on top of it. Run the board through your planer, smoothing once face completely, flip the bad boy over and plane to thickness. It will take a little longer than having both tools, (planer/jointer) and I have done the same thing you are talking about, alternating untill you get uniform width, it workes sometimes. But after I got my jointer my workmanship went waaayy up. be blessed friend.

 

[Matt]

First off, You guys rock! :icon_thum Thanks for all the advice. Thinking about this more, if the board is twisted or warped along the length, the planer won't take this out unless I shim it as described above. However, what if it is twisted / cupped / warped across the width? Will the planer's rollers still smooth this out until it passes through? Did I read that right?

Thanks again!!

Also, I would love to read about facing wide boards with a narrow joiner.

I think you all are talking me into not one, but two new tools. Dang, I think I may have caught the disease:BangHead:. That's what I get for hanging around shady websites :wink:

 

[walnutjerry]

Hi Matt---I am going to attempt explaining facing a wide board on a narrow jointer. First of all joint each side of one face leaving a path in the center of that face that is not dressed. The path you leave must be less than the width capacity of your jointer. The depth of cut for these passes needs to be deep enough that it is below the rough surface left in the center of the board. You have to make the depth call according to how good a shape your rough stock is and how thick it is to begin with relative to what you want to end up with. After making the outside passes at the same depth, adjust the jointer to take half that cut. Move the fence all the way back and in some cases you will have to take the blade cover off. Now make a pass that will joint that center section left rough. If that center section cleans up in one pass you are ready to go to the planer and plane the opposite face parallell to that center section just jointed. If not, readjust to take even a lighter cut and pass it again untill it does clean up or has cleaned up along both edges of that center section the length of the board. Then plane the opposite face untill clean, flip the board over and plane until the center section and "rabbets" on each side of it disappear or until it reaches the desired thickness. Please note that extreme care is needed when you remove the cutterhead cover---we are talking about keeping hands and fingers on top of the board on that pass(which should be done everytime). Use push blocks that grip the stock as you apply pressure down and forward. That machine has no brain and does not know the difference in the wood and your fingers.
I usually go 3/16 to 1/4 on the first passes on the outside edges of one face Then reset to 1/8 for the initial "center" cut. If that does not clean up the center section I reset to take 1/16 or less and make additional passes until I have a surface that is flat enough to go to the planer.
We are talking about a board that is in relatively good shape to begin with. Extreme cup in a board presents an entirely different situation. The best thing to do in that case is rip the board down the center then go the normal route for dressing out. Then glue them back together. Other things that help is crosscutting to rough length before starting the process as described above for wider stock. It is a matter of learning how to read your material to get the most out of it. Knowing how you are going to use that particular piece in the project. If you want all flawless material in the project the process starts when you go to the lumber yard to buy the material.
Hope I made the process understandable---if not feel free to ask questions. I can only share what I have learned from others and picked up from trial and error. I do not have a degree in industrial arts or engineering, just a little bit of experience. And still learning.

Jerry

 

[Mtnman]

I have had very good results flattentng cupped boards on my planer.
Everything I have read so far in this thread is correct, especially the part about the planer feed rolls taking some of the cup out before the board enters the planer knives. It's true that when the board leaves the feed rolls the board will spring back to the cup shape, but not quite as bad. I have found that light cuts do not compress the board as much.
What I do is; on the first cut, is to place the concave side down and take a light cut. This is for two reasons, 1st the board is more stable concave side down and will not rock, 2nd the light cut will not compress the cup or board very much so it will not spring back much either. Make several light cuts with the concave side down, and when the previously concave side is flat enough to not rock when fed into the planner, flip the board over and continue to make light cuts alternately flipping the board.
As I said, this works for me. It should work for you too.

 

[Steve D]

Lots of great suggestions for how to get by without having both tools. As with most tool purchases, it really depends upon the type of work you want to do. Different types of projects require different levels of precision. Different size projects require different capacities. If you occaisonally build small items, you can buy dimensioned lumber and avoid both tools. If you do frequent work and or larger projects, you will quickly pay for the cost of a jointer and planer in the savings buying rough wood. IMHO both a jointer and planer are essential tools for the type of work I do. I did just fine for for several years buying S2S lumber and having a 6" jointer. I designed my projects around 3/4 material and did a lot of sanding. When I added the thickness planer I was able to start using different thicknesses in projects and also buy rough lumber. If I had to buy one first, I think I would probably go with the thickness planer and a sled for face jointing and use the router table to edge joint. I have also used a straight edge and a flush trim router bit to edge joint in a pinch. If you can swing both tools, get them both because you will use them frequently.

 

[Canuck]

I have been reading this particular thread with a lot of interest! :eusa_thin I too do not have either tool and am trying to save the pennies to purchase the Dewalt 735 and the Rigid 6" jointer that I keep hearing so many positives about.

The big thing for me is having to rely on Lowes and the BORG to find any "finished" stock. Then, all I can generaly find is oak, pine and poplar. - Not a very wide selection and the cost is high!:-x

My question surrounds dust collection with the tools above. I currently use the humble shop vac as a dust collector and move it from tool to tool. Will the discharge from the thickness paner and jointer be too much for the shop vac? Can I get by until I convince the LOML that I also need a DC system?

Sorry if I have highjacked this thread, but I saw the topic and thought that I would through the question out there!

Thanks,

Wayne

 

[cpowell]

Wayne, a shop vac MAY work OK but if you are planing/jointing a LOT of stock you have to remember to empty it frequently. Planing/jointing removes a lot of wood. The shop vac volume is key. Large is GOOD.

I bought a cheap Delta DC and a cyclone top for a metal garbage can to catch the large chips. I added Grizzly bags on the DC. It works well unless you overfill the garbage can, the dust bags, and the flexible hose...DAMHIKT!!

An option is to plane outside and sweep afterwards (I did so for a while). Some of the planer models will have improved chip extraction with a DC/vacuum in place. My neighbor has the Dewalt and attached a large cloth bag to the end of a short run of 4 inch DC hose to catch the chips from the dust extractor. He claims it works great.

Chuck

 

[cpowell]

I would add that the length and width of stock has a lot to do with your success. Shorter, narrower stock seems to be exponentially easier than long, wide stock because it is so much easier to establish a plane of cut that minimizes loss.

If a 4 foot long, 8 inch wide board has 1/8 inch cup, it can be ripped down the center and the resultant pieces may be "jointed" using a jointer or planer/sled/shims much more easily with less stock loss.

If a board has a lot of twist it is very difficult to properly joint/thickness plane. Again, try to use such stock in short dimensions like dresser rails, short stretchers, etc.

You have to look at the stock and SEE the flat plane that would be left when the nonconformities are removed. Sometimes it just can't be done unless you want to take 4/4 stock down to 1/8 inch or so. :lol:

I have an 8 inch jointer with pretty long beds but I frequently use wood shims to establish my desired plane on the jointer bed, particularly with very long pieces.

Good stock selection is always key but you will find that perfectly flat wood will sometimes bend once you've ripped it and removed the internal stresses in the wood.

Chuck

 

[Canuck]

Thanks Chuck for your reply! Maybe before the year is out I can be working with some decent stock for a change. (Also, cheaper than running to the BORG!) I will just have to try and make more room for the gear!!!!!

Again. Thanks a bunch!

Wayne

 

[DaveO]

Wayne, the good thing about both a planner and jointer is that they create shavings vs fine dust. I generally let my Rigid jointer dump on the floor but use dust collection with my planner. I often remove much more stock with the planner than the jointer. But you would be better off with a good dust collection system...or at least that's what you need to tell the LOYL.
Dave