Schwarz Workbench and SYP

[wghatcher]

I have recently been going through the Schwarz Workbench book and considering building the French Workbench. I am wondering if many of you have taken his advise and used Southern Yellow Pine for your workbench. If so, what are your thoughts after completing the bench. What is the best source for SYP in the Cary/ Raleigh Area? Schwarz says to just head to the Home Depot. Is that the best SYP for the buck around here?

Thanks, Greg

 

[Canuck]

Greg.

Bas built a really nifty workbench a couple of years ago out of SYP. Looking super and was plenty strong. I believe he got his SYP (untreated) from either HD or Lowes (2x8's, I think).

Here's a pic of his bench.........

If he doesn't see this post, you may want to PM him.

Wayne

 

[Bill Clemmons]

My primary work bench is maple, but on one of my counter tops along the wall I used SYP. It gets pounded on and occasionally cut up w/ chisels. I wanted something durable, but also easily replaced if it ever gets too bad. I've been very pleased with it, and since it's not the most expensive wood in the world, I don't really worry about abusing it. I bought 2x8's at the local BORG, jointed them to remove the rounded over edge, then biscuit joined them. Couple coats of varnish and you're ready to go. :icon_thum

Bill

 

[eyekode]

I am considering doing something very similar. SYP from the BORG is about as cheap as it gets per bd ft. I don't think you can beat it at a sawmill.

Good luck and keep us posted. I will probably pick up the Schwarz book as soon as I finish a couple wooden hand planes from David Fink's book .

Edit: I looked it up: 2x10x16 = 14.12 at HD in Apex. That is ~.76 ct/bd ft if my math is right.

 

[ScottM]

Yes the bench Bas made is super and will last many many years. BTW he got his SYP at the HD in Apex. I understand they all don't carry it.

 

[wghatcher]

Thanks for the responses. I guess HD is the place to go.

Eyekode: I also have Fink's book on hand planes and hope to complete 1 or 2 of those in the future as well.

 

[Bas]

Southern Yellow Pine makes for a great bench. It's strong, cheap, and best of all, you won't cry for more than five minutes when you accidentally gouge it with a chisel or put a kerf in it with your circular saw.

I made mine 3" thick. Don't buy 2x4s, buy 2x8 instead and rip them down. You get more usable lumber that way, and the wider boards tend to have less warping/ twisting. Also, don't buy SYP (or any construction lumber for that matter) on the weekend. Go on Tue - Thu instead. During the week, the contractors take the good stuff and leave the cull for the homeowner on the weekend. I also suggest you give the wood plenty of time to acclimate in your shop. Occasionally, you'll have a board that goes wild as you rip it down, twisting and warping. Just discard those. I didn't really worry about knots, I just filled those with epoxy.

 

[toolferone]

As Bas said, buy the 2 x 8's and rip them down the middle, but start your glue up them with all the ripped edges together. Leave the rounded edges on the bottom side to give you more to plane down to get them straight if needed. I taught several work bench classes at WC and this helped keep the tops as thick as possible. We glued up 3 sets of 5 boards each, ran then through the planner and then joined the 3 sets together. This kept the glue ups to a manageable size.

 

[tjgreen]

I love this site - it's amazing how often a post comes along just in time. I've also been wondering about a bench on a budget using framing lumber.

Bas, that's one great-looking bench. Couple questions for you.

-Did you work off your own plan or someone else's?
-What size are the legs? Assuming 4x4 but they look stout in the pics.
-Where'd you get the front vise hardware?
-How are the faces of the vise holding up? Wondering about the softer pine clamping rough-sawn -hardwood. I have a small metal face vise with sacrificial faces of pine and they've taken a beating.
-Anything you'd add or change?

 

[froglips]

I'll only comment on home center SYP.

As part of the HOW Meetup Group, we went to a home depot to do the "look for clear boards" thing. (I have a Schwarz tattoo, so don't think I'm knocking him in any way!)

I'd not likely, nor easily, be convinced to do that again.

It took a lot of work and grief to find passable lumber. Not even good, just not as bad as the rest.

The 12 of us in the group all agreed it would be well worth the extra bit of cash to get SYP from the Hardwood Store or other wood suppliers.

I'm not saying its impossible to go the home center route. But I'd not say its worth the effort for what you get.

((It really was a bad experience, and I usually don't whine this much )

Good luck on the bench though, sounds like you are on the right track!

Jim

 

[Bas]

I love this site - it's amazing how often a post comes along just in time. I've also been wondering about a bench on a budget using framing lumber.

Bas, that's one great-looking bench. Couple questions for you.

-Did you work off your own plan or someone else's?
-What size are the legs? Assuming 4x4 but they look stout in the pics.
-Where'd you get the front vise hardware?
-How are the faces of the vise holding up? Wondering about the softer pine clamping rough-sawn -hardwood. I have a small metal face vise with sacrificial faces of pine and they've taken a beating.
-Anything you'd add or change?

- I used two sets of plans, basically combining a base and a top. Info in my original post on the workbench. (UPDATE: Original link broken, plans for the base can now be found here and the top here)
- The legs are 4x4, made by laminating two pieces of 2x stock.
- The front vise comes from Lee Valley. Search for "large front vise". Just make sure you read the instructions carefully before you install it
- The SYP is definitely not soft compared to a lot of wood I've used, but it does get it fair set of dings, scratches and dimples you wouldn't get with hard maple. On the other hand, I've found that having a bench and vise with a little "give" prevents damaging your projects. I can't tell you how many times I've accidentally made a ridge when doing a glueup with parallel clamps because I applied a little too much pressure. With pine for the faces, that's less likely to happen. I've found it holds things just fine, and of course it's easy and cheap to replace. But there's no reason you couldn't use something else for the vise faces. Beech would look great with pine.
- Make it longer. My previous shop was much smaller so I didn't have much of a choice, but now that I have more space I often wish it was another 3ft. Also, width-wise, I think it's just too narrow at 24", 28" would probably be ideal.
- Use something other than metal braces to join the top to the base. It works fine, but there are more elegant solutions. This is purely for cosmetic/ vanity reasons.

Good luck building it. It's nice to know that if you mess up, you haven't wasted much in valuable materials. Since the best way to learn is by making mistakes, I "decided" a long time ago I'd become the world's best student :embaresse. Knowing you can run to Home Depot to get some replacement materal helps.

 

[Bas]

I'm not saying its impossible to go the home center route. But I'd not say its worth the effort for what you get.

I won't argue with you there, there's a lot of lumber there that's barely suitable for framing, never mind building a bench. Find a Home Depot store that stocks good lumber (it varies a lot!), and go during the week with a buddy so you can sort through the stack. And it may take a few trips so they can restock after you've pine-picked the best boards. And sometimes you cut a 2x8 and barely get one piece of clear material 3" wide. If you can get good stock at a reasonable price from a hardwood dealer, that may not be a whole lot more expensive.

 

[Don Alexander]

only ever buy lumber of any type at the BORG if it doesn't matter if its crooked, twisted, warped, knotty, and any other bad thing you can think of :gar-Bi

if you must get it there ..... sort carefully, be patient and hope they have several units on hand to pick through :gar-Cr

 

[ScottM]

There are still local and small chain lumber yards around. You will be surprised that in many cases you don't pay a more for lumber there and the quality is better then the BORG. Just something else to consider.

 

[CatButler]

Hey Greg,

Great to see another Schwartz fan in Cary. I live right by the Apex HD. I just picked up a couple of SYP boards to make Schwartz's saw bench. The HD in Apex does have SYP, the Lowes does not. I think STOCK building supply in Apex also has it. I think they may also carry LVL laminated beams which may also be nice for making a bench. At STOCK you have to pay up front then go to the lumber yard to pick up your stuff. I'm not sure they like you going through their boards trying to find the clearest. HD doesn't care. Like everyone else has said, go through the wider boards and try to find the best looking stuff. Sometimes it looks pretty bad other times you can get some good stuff. I picked up an 8' 2x10 that was completely knot free for my saw bench. They will also cut the board for you so you can pick out some longer stuff too. The great thing about using it for benches is that I don't have to have a specific dimension in mind, and it's cheap enough I don't mind if there is a little extra, you can always use it for something else.

 

[CatButler]

Tim,

If you want a budget bench, there's plans for Bob and Dave's good, fast, and cheap workbench in the download library. You can probably google it too. I made that one this winter. The plans call for 2x4 and 2x8's. It's not a thing of beauty, but it's better than not having a bench at all and you can just add stuff to it. The claim is that Dave, Bob's 13 year old son, built this in 15 hours. I don't know if I believe that, maybe if you have sharp tools and don't get distracted with other stuff.

If you want to improve it, I would get wider SYP boards and just rip them down to 2x4's. I bought premium 2x4's at Lowes because they seemed better than home depot's. I didn't have a table saw and stunk at hand rip sawing. I bought a harbor freight vise, I would try to find something better. I'd also think twice about the tool tray. It hasn't come in that useful, and I think I would rather have the real estate.

 

[garymuto]

Leave the rounded edges on the bottom side to give you more to plane down to get them straight if needed. I taught several work bench classes at WC and this helped keep the tops as thick as possible. We glued up 3 sets of 5 boards each, ran then through the planner and then joined the 3 sets together. This kept the glue ups to a manageable size.

That's a great tip. Thanks!

 

[Shamrock]

I've built the Roubo out of SYP from the Home Centers and would not do it again. For the time and aggravation involved it's worth the extra effort just to buy 8/4 ash or maple. The problem like has been said before comes in finding enough usable/clear/not twisted lumber. If you go the HD route plan on it taking 3-4 tries to get enough usable lumber to work with. Then rough surface it and let it sit for a few weeks before you take it down to final size. Then only work with the sections you'll get glued up that day. (ie-if your gonna glue up 1 3 board section for the top--only process 3 boards that day) If you prepare all the lumber ahead of time its gonna move enough that you'll have to reprocess it when your ready for glue-up. Here's a great pic of what you can expect. This was a very clear 2x12x14 I was cutting into 3 -3" boards.

View image in gallery​

So again-SYP is cheap-but IMHO with all the hassles you'll deal with in the long run it's more cost effective to go with ASH or maple or hickory or whatever you can find in 8/4 that's $3 or less a board ft.

Just my .02

 

[Trent Mason]

Lots of great tips in this thread. :thumbs_up:thumbs_up As for me, I think my days of getting lumber from the BORG are over. Every time I go there, I might only need 1, 2, or maybe 3 boards, yet I have to look through an entire stack to find it/them. :BangHead:

 

[bigcat4t9r]

Ditto for me with the BORG SYP. My Holtzapfel WIP was going to be all SYP. I did get the legs and stretchers glued up pretty easily, but the top laminations began to get thinner and thinner trying to get things square and after 2-3 more trips and waiting to acclimate the lumber, I gave up.

Sprang for 12-4 Ash and got the 24" top in 9 laminations and was done in the span of 3-4 evenings. Tuning my tenons now and getting ready to start my mortises. I've taken some pics and plan on doing a post once I've had a chance.