questions about white oak and hickory

[vbgregg]

Hi,

Someone I met tonight is selling 200 to 300 bf of white oak and hickory. He said it has already been cut into boards and kiln dried. The boards are 8-10' long, 6-8" wide, and 4/4 to 6/4 thick.

I am relatively new at woodworking. Most everything I have made so far has used red oak. I like red oak, but perhaps I should try some other woods!

What are some of the good (and bad) features of white oak and hickory? I realize that a lot of things may boil down to personal preference, but do most folks consider these to be good looking woods? Are they easy to work with, or at least similar to red oak in that respect? Are there certain things for which white oak or hickory are particularly good (or bad) choices? I hope to make some furniture for our house -- nothing too fancy, but still I'd like to use good wood.

I think he said that these board have been kept in a storage unit. Do I need to worry about insects? Are there other potential problems I should consider with respect to how and where the boards have been housed?

Sorry for the dumb questions, but I don't have a lot of knowledge or confidence about picking out wood. I hate to admit it, but most of the red oak I've used has been purchased at Lowes and has not needed much jointing and planing. I think it's time I started using my jointer and planer! Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,

Gregg

 

[jeff...]

Gregg, Both WO and Hickory are harder than RO especially Hickory. Actually 6~8" hickory boards might be ideal to work with since they are hard. Nothing wrong with either wood species as far as workability or being made into furniture. Just as long as they were cut thick enough to suit your purpose after jointing and planing. As far as bugs go, can't help you much there - sorry...

Thanks

 

[DaveO]

Gregg, WO and Hickory are going to be a bit different to work with than the RO you are experienced with. Both are going to be harder woods, with Hickory being a lot harder. RO has a open grain and is prone to splintering, WO is closed and will yield finer details. I don't think that you will find any problems moving into working with these wood though. WO when QS will exhibit excellent ray flake and is a very beautiful wood. Finishing will be a little easier, RO can be a pain to finish to a high gloss due to it's open pore grain structure. Hickory can look a lot like RO and IMO is a very handsome wood.
If the wood has been kiln dried you should have little concern about insect problems. The kilning process will kill anything that is already in the wood, and few insects like well dried wood. Powder post beetles are one exception, but they would be easy to detect if present.

If the price is right, I think that you will really appreciate working with rough stock. It's more work, but you have more control over the final product. Plus running a rough sawn board through the planer for the first pass is like opening up a treasure chest.
Having rough stock that probably came from the same tree will make color matching so much easier than buying the random boards from the BORG.


OK, I'm lying, it's all crap. Don't buy any of it and give me the contact information for the seller so I can assist him in disposing of this junk properly :lol::lol::lol:


MTCW,
Dave

 

[McRabbet]

Gregg,

I've used White Oak for many furniture and cabinet projects and it is a marvelous wood for that purpose. Quarter sawn White Oak (distinguished by having the growth rings running into the board at 50-80 degrees) has been used for much of the Arts and Crafts movement furniture made famous by Stickley and others. It commonly exhibits a pattern called Ray Flakes when quarter sawn.

It does not have the reddish tones of Red Oak or the distinctive open pores.

Rift sawn White Oak-->

or flat sawn White oak -->
is attractive with its "cathedral" grain figure growth rings curve up to the board surface and then descend.

Hickory is a beautiful wood that is very popular for cabinets and it too has nice figure. These are typical examples.





Hope this helps. By the way, here is a great link to look at all kinds of different wood species and is where these pictures came from. http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/

Regards,

 

[Nativespec]

I especially like the look of hickory, but it will tear up your jointer and planer knives.

David

 

[Jim Murphy]

flat sawn White oak is attractive with its "cathedral" grain figure growth rings curve up to the board surface and then descend.

Okay, I'm going to stand up in front of you and admit it:

"Hello, my name is Jim."

(Audience: 'Hello, Jim.')

"I am a quartersawn snob."

(Audience: some clapping, some muttering, general cacophonic atmosphere)

From the back of the room, a bedraggled soul with flat-sawn oak chips in his hair, dust on his safety glasses, and GorillaGlue stains on his shirt rises. He raises his hand, exposing two missing fingers and a mangled thumb sporting what appears to be two Band-Aid brand adhesive bandages, but are actually WalMart generic bandaids.

(Bedraggled Soul: 'What's wrong with flat-sawn?')

"Only a lazy sawyer would simply slice the log repeatedly. It's blasphemy. A true craftsman sawyer takes the time to extract the beauty and essence of the timber with his saw. He must frequently take a turn, and not for the worse."

(BS: 'I happen to like the cathedral grain. It gives the wood character.')

"That sir, is your opinion. I suppose we must agree to disagree. You see, to the purist, being selective in the choice of a particular character connotes an affinity toward a higher calling. Rays and flecks are much more highly sought than simple cathedrals.
Quartersawn was the clear choice of those working in the Arts and Crafts movement. Whenever I see flatsawn oak material I advise my cohorts and compatriots that the work is from the WoodButcher movement, and is not the work of true artists and craftswomen.
Were I to be placed in responsible dictatorial charge of woodslabbing, I would issue a proscription to those who are so indolent as to slice and stack without taking the time to turn and admire."

(Audience: Boos and hisses, with a smattering of 'You go, girl.')

"I am not particulary proud of my stance, as pride oft goeth before the fall, and I am fond of the spring and summer more than the fall, but preferences are either with you from birth or acquired during life. In either event, once one has chosen the quartersawn path, there is no turning back.

Continue, if you must, to use flatsawn material drawn from the slothful sawyer, but I shall maintain my high road of insistence on acquiring only those planks lovingly rotated during the slicing process. Unless, of course, I am making something for my in-laws."

Bowing graciously, the speaker steadfastly leaves the rostrum and marches imperiously through the crowd, headed to the Harbor Freight parking lot in search of quartersawn sycamore.

 

[DavidF]

Nice one:rolf:

BTW - Don't believe all you read about the ultra stability of QSWO - It's Bo$%^&ks it moves just enough to screw your project up, but no more:BangHead:

 

[Kyle]

Okay, I'm going to stand up in front of you and admit it:

"Hello, my name is Jim."

(Audience: 'Hello, Jim.')

"I am a quartersawn snob."

(Audience: some clapping, some muttering, general cacophonic atmosphere)

From the back of the room, a bedraggled soul with flat-sawn oak chips in his hair, dust on his safety glasses, and GorillaGlue stains on his shirt rises. He raises his hand, exposing two missing fingers and a mangled thumb sporting what appears to be two Band-Aid brand adhesive bandages, but are actually WalMart generic bandaids.

(Bedraggled Soul: 'What's wrong with flat-sawn?')

"Only a lazy sawyer would simply slice the log repeatedly. It's blasphemy. A true craftsman sawyer takes the time to extract the beauty and essence of the timber with his saw. He must frequently take a turn, and not for the worse."

(BS: 'I happen to like the cathedral grain. It gives the wood character.')

"That sir, is your opinion. I suppose we must agree to disagree. You see, to the purist, being selective in the choice of a particular character connotes an affinity toward a higher calling. Rays and flecks are much more highly sought than simple cathedrals.
Quartersawn was the clear choice of those working in the Arts and Crafts movement. Whenever I see flatsawn oak material I advise my cohorts and compatriots that the work is from the WoodButcher movement, and is not the work of true artists and craftswomen.
Were I to be placed in responsible dictatorial charge of woodslabbing, I would issue a proscription to those who are so indolent as to slice and stack without taking the time to turn and admire."

(Audience: Boos and hisses, with a smattering of 'You go, girl.')

"I am not particulary proud of my stance, as pride oft goeth before the fall, and I am fond of the spring and summer more than the fall, but preferences are either with you from birth or acquired during life. In either event, once one has chosen the quartersawn path, there is no turning back.

Continue, if you must, to use flatsawn material drawn from the slothful sawyer, but I shall maintain my high road of insistence on acquiring only those planks lovingly rotated during the slicing process. Unless, of course, I am making something for my in-laws."

Bowing graciously, the speaker steadfastly leaves the rostrum and marches imperiously through the crowd, headed to the Harbor Freight parking lot in search of quartersawn sycamore.

Actually some the higher end shops I sell to prefer flat or bastard sawn wood over the qsawn with the figure. The highly figured stuff may be nice for that special piece ( I like it) but tends to stick out like a sore thumb when doing multiple pieces or cabinets and other carpentry work..

The qsawn is a lot more stable to work with as well..

 

[Kyle]

Hickory and Pecan are pretty hard.. harder than woak and harder than locust typically on par with some of the exotic woods. Hickory and or Pecan (used interchangeably in commercial industry) tend to be highly friable and split easily.

to be honest I hate sawing Hickory or Pecan especially if its been on the ground more than a month. You go through blades like crazy.

 

[jeff...]

Okay, I'm going to stand up in front of you and admit it:

"Hello, my name is Jim."

(Audience: 'Hello, Jim.')

"I am a quartersawn snob."

(Audience: some clapping, some muttering, general cacophonic atmosphere)

From the back of the room, a bedraggled soul with flat-sawn oak chips in his hair, dust on his safety glasses, and GorillaGlue stains on his shirt rises. He raises his hand, exposing two missing fingers and a mangled thumb sporting what appears to be two Band-Aid brand adhesive bandages, but are actually WalMart generic bandaids.

(Bedraggled Soul: 'What's wrong with flat-sawn?')

"Only a lazy sawyer would simply slice the log repeatedly. It's blasphemy. A true craftsman sawyer takes the time to extract the beauty and essence of the timber with his saw. He must frequently take a turn, and not for the worse."

(bandsaw: 'I happen to like the cathedral grain. It gives the wood character.')

"That sir, is your opinion. I suppose we must agree to disagree. You see, to the purist, being selective in the choice of a particular character connotes an affinity toward a higher calling. Rays and flecks are much more highly sought than simple cathedrals.
Quartersawn was the clear choice of those working in the Arts and Crafts movement. Whenever I see flatsawn oak material I advise my cohorts and compatriots that the work is from the WoodButcher movement, and is not the work of true artists and craftswomen.
Were I to be placed in responsible dictatorial charge of woodslabbing, I would issue a proscription to those who are so indolent as to slice and stack without taking the time to turn and admire."

(Audience: Boos and hisses, with a smattering of 'You go, girl.')

"I am not particulary proud of my stance, as pride oft goeth before the fall, and I am fond of the spring and summer more than the fall, but preferences are either with you from birth or acquired during life. In either event, once one has chosen the quartersawn path, there is no turning back.

Continue, if you must, to use flatsawn material drawn from the slothful sawyer, but I shall maintain my high road of insistence on acquiring only those planks lovingly rotated during the slicing process. Unless, of course, I am making something for my in-laws."

Bowing graciously, the speaker steadfastly leaves the rostrum and marches imperiously through the crowd, headed to the Harbor Freight parking lot in search of quartersawn sycamore.

Jim that was too much, so how many scotch on the rocks did that take?

IMHO - Quartersawn is by far a better quality product than flatsawn, even if it's a species that doesn't show distinct QS appearance features.

Kyle I'm with you - Pecan / Hickory is rough sawing, especially if you don't get the log on the mill within a few weeks after it's been off the stump. No doubt sawing off wide boards will require frequent visits to the sharpener.

I still think the hardest thing I've cut yet, is black locust. It laughs at a 4 degree hook angle frozen timber WM bands and you can forget your monkey 8 degrees hooks. I had to grind a Lenox woodmaster C back to 1 ~ 2 degrees to get the log sawed into quarters. with 1 ~ 2 degree grind the saw was throwing out chips more than dust, I like to see chips! after quartering I switched switched out to WM frozen timber 4 degree hook, but still had to sharpen about every 50 BF. After Scott kiln dried it, I'm working into a desk and believe it or not I'm having to rough sand with 40 grit. It's a beautiful wood, but when dry it's about like trying to shape a brick...

 

[DIYGUY]

Jeff,
There was a reason old-timers used locust in fences - I think your comments have just given us a few of them ...

I love white oak far more than red, but each is good to work with. I don't care all that much for hickory, pecan turns nicely. If you want a truly nice straight grained wood that machines readily, takes glue and stain well and is not out of this world expensive look to ash ... seems one of the forgotten species in modern cabinet making.

 

[Bernhard]

Gregg,
Not to hijack your thread, but is there any more white oak available form your source?

I need about 100 bfd white oak (6/4 or thicker), air dried is fine.

Thank you,
Bernhard