Proportion feedback sought - toolchest

[scsmith42]

My eldest brother and I are pretty close, and share in common interests such as antique engines, all types of metal fabrication and machining, automotive repair, etc. In addition, I have interests in woodworking.

We are both “tool junkies” so to speak, and have been very fortunate to each have some really nice shops.

As a combined Christmas / birthday gift for him (and me), I’m considering building a matched pair of tool chests; one for him and one for me. I’m drawn to the machinist chest style of tool chest, as this is a practical design for both of us.

However, I’d also like to build something that is uncommon and unique in terms of the wood used. One of my farm businesses is milling, drying and selling quartersawn oak, so that would be a natural wood for me to use for the chests. At present I have two bookmatched 7’ tall, 16” wide quartersawn red oak boards in stock with a nice variety of flake on them (I also have some 20” QSWO boards in the kiln!). Additionally, I have a lot more QSRO from the same log as the ultra-wide boards. My thoughts are to build something that will showcase the uncommon width of these quartersawn boards.

If I utilize them for a machinist chest, I could make both sides as well as the top from the same board, in essence wrapping it around the chest. Additionally, I could cut all of the drawer fronts from the same board, which would extend the grain pattern and ray flake across the open front of the chest.

My problem is with the dimensions. I really don’t want to reduce the width of the boards, so if I use them for the sides it would be approximately 15” – 16” deep, which is not a common depth for a machinist type chest.

If I utilize one board for the drawer fronts, and then have a recessed area in the top of the box, then I’d probably be looking at a height of around 19” (15” worth of drawer height, 3” of upper recessed area, and then another inch for an apron attached to the underside of the lid. This height is not out of bounds for a machinist type chest.

Chest width would probably be in the 24” – 28” range.

My challenge is figuring out how to come up with pleasing proportions that take advantage of the ultra-wide boards that I have. I’m not a very artistic person; my talents run more to the mechanical side.

Any and all advice would be most welcome. Thanks.

Scott

ps - I have Jim Tolpin's toolbox book - lots of great info there!

 

[Gotcha6]

Scott, a lot of the posts on here about proportion usually end up citing the 'golden rectangle' rule of approx 8/5 or 5/8 (1.618:1) as a natural esthetically pleasing ratio. Using it, a 28" wide box should be approx 17-1/2" high & 11" deep.
Good luck in sizing it. Hope to see some pics soon.

 

[Mike Davis]

Be sure to make it wide enough for a 24 inch rule, that is the major complaint I have with most tool chests.

The golden rule works, but use it to your advantage. 11 inches deep would kill it for a lot of tools. Only small measuring tools would fit in the tiny drawers.

A normal sized chest would get lost in your shop.

GO FOR IT! As large as possible.

 

[scsmith42]

Be sure to make it wide enough for a 24 inch rule, that is the major complaint I have with most tool chests. .

Mike, that's great advice - had not thought of that.

A normal sized chest would get lost in your shop. GO FOR IT! As large as possible.

<grin>

I appreciate the advice from you and Dennis re the Golden Mean. The biggest challenge with using that system is the depth of the box, as I lose the ability to showcase the 16" QSRO on the sides...

 

[FredP]

you could use the wide boards for drawer fronts. yes you would be cutting them down but they will all grain match. then again you could build 3......:rotflm:

 

[Ozzie-x]

Scott,
Gerstner has probably been the leading machinist's toolbox maker for 100? years. They are still in business. Here's a shortcut to their website where you might get some ideas. They have really expanded their offerings over the years.

http://www.gerstner.net/

 

[Mike Davis]

16 x 24 x 36

16 x 24 is a common paper size it is close to golden mean, same for 24 x 36.

A little under that should be good too.


14 x 22 x 36 would work too and is very close to golden.

 

[scsmith42]

All - thanks for the feedback.

Randy - I've been drooling over some of those Gerstner chests ever since I had my machine shop 30 years ago! They sure make some nice boxes.

Mike / Dennis: Thx for the golden mean info. If I use those formula's I'll either have one whale of a large toolbox, or have to reduce the sides to something less than 16", or not be able to use a single board to make the front of all of the drawers from. Bummer...

Are there any other types of formula's used that may work better for my needs?

Scott

 

[CrealBilly]

Any Idea how wide those boards will be coming out of the kiln? I'll bet you they won't be 20" wide like when you put them in :gar-Bi.

QS shrinks more in thickness than in width but it still shrinks in width some. A QS board that wide I would say around a good 1/2 ~ 3/4", only because there is a lot of board there to shrink.

When can I see these 20" wide QS RO boards? I just want a little peek so I can help them stress relive, that is by drooling all over them.

 

[dpsnyder]

Scott,

Depending on how high the chest was going to be stored, I would try to get a pleasing (golden) proportion on the front, and then make it as deep as you want to show off the wood. Since the depth is going away from you, unless you look at it straight down, it will not seem as deep as it is and so it will look better than you might think. Sounds like given your dimensions you won't be strictly sizing it to a standard machinists box anyway.

Maybe consider 29 wide by 18 tall (roughly golden), then make 15 deep to show off wood. Wrap the grain up over and down as you described.

On a standard box, you can see the dividers that separate the drawers. maybe consider drawer fronts that lap over the dividers to further show off the grain. The drawer front would look like a single piece of wood when the drawers are closed. Then on the door that covers and locks in the drawers maybe do a rail and stile with a particularly nice piece of wood grain showcased in the floating panel.

For the drawers, I would again use the golden ratio to determine the widths of the smaller drawers - with my dimensions, it would be 11 then 7 then 11 inches each (18 x 11 being roughly golden). Also, I would consider dividing the small drawers vertically from the wider drawers at about 11 inches from the bottom to reinforce the ratio's appearance. While you don't have true complete golden rectangles on the front, by putting some of the vertical and horizontal lines on the golden ratios, your eye will naturally complete the rectangles, making them where they don't really exist.

just my two cents, you'd have to play with it to make it work. Google Sketchup is great for this.

Dan

 

[timf67]

All - thanks for the feedback.

Randy - I've been drooling over some of those Gerstner chests ever since I had my machine shop 30 years ago! They sure make some nice boxes.

Mike / Dennis: Thx for the golden mean info. If I use those formula's I'll either have one whale of a large toolbox, or have to reduce the sides to something less than 16", or not be able to use a single board to make the front of all of the drawers from. Bummer...

Are there any other types of formula's used that may work better for my needs?

Scott

I'm no artist either, but the golden ratio does make design more foolproof. However, it doesn't have to be exact either (though as an engineer it is easier for me to say than to do! :gar-La I learned when we were picking window sizes for our house addition that you can "stretch" the ratio and still look fine. I noticed that we could vary between 1.4 and 1.8 and still look pleasing. also, think about which face or angle the toolbox will be viewed from and focus most on that ratio. Finally, don't over-analyze it - I do that all the time and in the end I realized that the final product and the meaning behind it will overshadow any design "flaws".

Oh, and with all the wood you have around you can make a few scale models if you are worried about the look. If you do make a "practice" box, I'd be happy to take it off your hands...:gar-Bi

 

[Mike Davis]

Tim is right the formula is just a guide, not a hard fast rule. Make the front what ever size you need and let the depth fill out your wide planks.

You may want to make a mock up with cheap paneling or 1/4 inch plywood to see if it fits your needs and looks good to you.

 

[BumoutBob]

Just a few thoughts for you to think about: drawer depth, what are you putting in the box? Will it fill up the drawer so that you can't close them.

weight: a 30" X 20" X 17" oak box will be HEAVY when full of tools. Think about some strong handles so you and a buddy can lift/move it. It may need a roll around base to be able to use it, or at least a special bench space to set it on. A roll around would be a nice use of some of the fancy oak.

 

[scsmith42]

Scott,

Depending on how high the chest was going to be stored, I would try to get a pleasing (golden) proportion on the front, and then make it as deep as you want to show off the wood. Since the depth is going away from you, unless you look at it straight down, it will not seem as deep as it is and so it will look better than you might think. Sounds like given your dimensions you won't be strictly sizing it to a standard machinists box anyway.

Maybe consider 29 wide by 18 tall (roughly golden), then make 15 deep to show off wood. Wrap the grain up over and down as you described.

On a standard box, you can see the dividers that separate the drawers. maybe consider drawer fronts that lap over the dividers to further show off the grain. The drawer front would look like a single piece of wood when the drawers are closed. Then on the door that covers and locks in the drawers maybe do a rail and stile with a particularly nice piece of wood grain showcased in the floating panel.

For the drawers, I would again use the golden ratio to determine the widths of the smaller drawers - with my dimensions, it would be 11 then 7 then 11 inches each (18 x 11 being roughly golden). Also, I would consider dividing the small drawers vertically from the wider drawers at about 11 inches from the bottom to reinforce the ratio's appearance. While you don't have true complete golden rectangles on the front, by putting some of the vertical and horizontal lines on the golden ratios, your eye will naturally complete the rectangles, making them where they don't really exist.

just my two cents, you'd have to play with it to make it work. Google Sketchup is great for this.

Dan

Dan - that is some GREAT information and advice, and has given me a lot of ideas to think about. Thanks much!

Scott

 

[scsmith42]

Just a few thoughts for you to think about: drawer depth, what are you putting in the box? Will it fill up the drawer so that you can't close them.

weight: a 30" X 20" X 17" oak box will be HEAVY when full of tools. Think about some strong handles so you and a buddy can lift/move it. It may need a roll around base to be able to use it, or at least a special bench space to set it on. A roll around would be a nice use of some of the fancy oak.

Bob, thanks for the thoughts. Most likely my brother would use the box for his metal machining related tools - calipers, micrometers, drills, squares, etc.

He has some pretty substantial Snap-on roll cabs in his shop (as do I) that may be a candidate to support the box - or in my instance I may consider some type of roll around in the future.

Thanks for the reminders. I wonder if there is an easy way to conbine the traditional wooden machinist box drawer slides with some bearings to assist with the drawer openings...

 

[mkepke]

Another option might be to create a tool chest with two faces.

For example, one face is a bank of 12" deep drawers. Spin the chest 180 degrees and have a pair of doors that encloses a shallow space for handsaws, bits, braces, measuring tools,....

-Mark

 

[scsmith42]

Now that's an interesting thought...

 

[AAAndrew]

The consideration for 16" depth is the need to pull the drawer all the way out to get something. That's not to say not to use all 16", I'm all for that.

Another source for proportions is to look at commercial objects and see what they use. 2:3 is a common proportion (look at 4x6 photos). So is 3:5 and 5:7.

Think about if you want to have it low and long, or tall and narrower. or square. 24x24x16 deep would get you a 2:3 ratio in height/width:depth and allow you to use muchof the board, allowing for checking and other loss of length during processing. To fit the 24" ruler, I'd go with 28" wide, 18" high by 16" deep. That's close to a 3:2 ratio on front and give you room for five good drawers on front

If you want to maximize the qs boards and use something less spectacular on the top, then I'd go 36" sides, 24" top and 16" deep. That's a 3:2 height:width and a 3:2 width to depth, and a close to 2:1 ratio in height to depth. But as the others said, the depth is not quite as important. And that would be one spectacular tool chest. And very heavy.

In the end, choose a pleasing size and go for it. With that wood, it will look good no matter the proportions.

 

[scsmith42]

Andrew - that's good feedback - thx.