Need some advice on carving equipment

[Vanilla Gorilla]

I need some help from the carving community! I desperately want to get into carving, but I am finding it tremendously difficult to even start.

First and foremost, my tools are crap. Cheap harbor freight stuff. I don't know how important the quality of your carving tools is as a beginner, but I suspect that like everything in woodworking I should buy the best I can afford. The problem is, I don't know what constitutes "good tools". I don't want to just plunk down a bunch of money thinking that price automatically equals quality...I want value.

secondly, I see a lot of carving sets out there, and I don't know the difference between them. Stubby, flexcut, palm chisels, full size, etc. Not to mention they all come with different tools. What tools are pretty much essential? Are full size better than smaller tools?

Thirdly, I have no idea where to begin with sharpening. I was never able to get a decent edge on my tools, I don't know how to grind them properly, I don't know how to hone them properly, and then I am sure the quality of the tools comes into play at some point.

If you guys could give me some ideas on a decent set of chisels to buy, and a couple of sharpening tips, I would be eternally greatful. Then I'll be back for actual carving tips :icon_thum

 

[NCPete]

Marco, perhaps an important question is what sort of carving do you want to do??? relief carving requires a different set of tools than full on 3D stuff.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

I guess I should have clarified that. I am not really into sculpting anything 3D. Or at least I don't think I am. My desire stems more from the desire to have the ability to add character to my firniture and make it more unique. Or sometimes, more traditional-- ie clam shell patterns, chip carvings, ball and claw feet, etc. I am not necessarily looking to win any carving awards, just to have some basic competency to spice up my work

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Thanks for the offer Mike...depending on my schedule, and whether or not I can get a second mortgage to cover the gas, I would love to take you up on that offer. :icon_thum

It's funny to me, because I have gotten pretty decent at sharpening plane irons and chisels. I can get them to take hair off of my arm, but for the life of me when it stops being a flat bevel I'm sharpening, I'm thrown for a loop. It doesn't help that I haven't been able to find good info on sharpening gouges, v-tools, etc on the internet. Maybe the people with the knowhow are too busy carving! :rotflm:

 

[MikeL]

Hey Marco, I don't know a thing about carving (it's somewhere on the list of to-do's), but have you looked into taking any classes? I got started with classes that were offered at the NC State Crafts Center. It's currently being renovated, which has limited the current offerings, but I know Klingspor and others have class schedules. I believe Paul teaches the carving at Klingspor. Just an idea. Good luck with your pursuit.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

It's funny you mention that Mike, because that's exactly why I am posting this thread. I saw that the Woodcraft down in Matthews was having a beginners carving class this month and I wanted to take it. It said you needed a beginners set of carving tools, and that got me looking around at the different offerings online.

The problem is, there is an overwhelming variety of equipment on the market, all at tremendously differing price points. I figured this group would be my best place to turn, because there's such a wealth of experience here!!!:notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:

 

[Gofor]

I think you have stumbled upon the value of HF: If you haven't done it, and don't know what you need, its a place to get some basic stuff cheap on which to learn how to sharpen/tune, (and to get you through the class) until you get enough knowledge and skill to determine what works best for your needs. Even a cheap, poorly designed, poor material tool can be valuable if you learn from it. And once in a while you end up with a gem that you can turn into a well polished jewel because the material was good but the time and effort to fine tune it wasn't expended in an effort to keep the cost down.
Think of HF tools like prototypes made out of scraps: Some scraps are good material, and building (using) a prototype let you make affordable mistakes until you get the process right.
If the class instructor demeans you for the tools/materials you bring, you need to find a different instructor anyway, because they are more concerned with selling something than with teaching someone who wants to learn.

JMTCW

Go

 

[JimmyC]

Marco,

You gotta stop hanging out at Klingspor, the next thing that you are going to want is turning tools:rotflm:. Maybe for carving tools you can get a his and her set for you and the LOYL. She seemed real interested:eusa_thin.

Jimmy

 

[Nativespec]

Marco:

Here is a set I bought (I might even consider selling). I noticed most of the carvers at Klingspoor using the Pheil. I know of someone who prefers the Flexcut because of the flexible steel. Hartville also sells MHG which I believe is a good value.

http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/12139

David

 

[PeteM]

A few choices:

http://www.chippingaway.com/WoodCarving/BeginnerCarvingTools/BasicandDetailCarvingTools.htm

http://www.carvingpatterns.com/toolkit.htm

This is the one I have:
http://www.littleshavers.com/BegKit.html

You can get some good info here:
http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/forum/index.php

pete

 

[JOAT]

When I saw the subject, my first thought was a good pocket knife. Then pick up a couple of books on carving. Next thought was chainsaw. I carved 3 Tikis with a chainsaw, loads of fun. Then put the finishing touches on them with some HF chisels. And, I totally agree with Mark on the HF chisels. I figured if I ruined them learning to sharpen, no big deal. And, if I wore them out learning, I could get some higher quality later. Well, I've still got my el cheapo lathe tools, still going strong after about 10 years, and still got the chisel ses. They're all holding up quite well.

 

[prolfe]

Marco,

You need to come by the Klingspor Woodworking Shop this Saturday to check out the Woodcarving Festival that will be taking place there. You will be amazed and inspired by the collection of outstanding work on display. There will also be carving demonstrations throughout the day.

In addition to the collection of carvings on display, there will be at least 50 carvers in attendance that would be happy to share with you anything that they know.

And then, in addition to that we continuously offer woodcarving classes in the store. We currently have a beginning class on April 19, a woodspirit class on May 17. We just had a furniture carving class. I also have an ongoing woodcarving apprenticeship program that meets every Thursday night.

Call the store for more details at (919) 876-0707.

Paul

 

[nelsone]

I posted a very similar thread a while back. Still haven't done much more than playing. I have started getting some of the Phiel gouges, but I'm still figuring out what I need! I'll tell you to do what I haven't done myself yet, Find the local carving club and see if they can help!

 

[Robert Arrowood]

Marco,
You should be able to find some carving class's closer to home. I've been looking at carving sets for a while now myself.Right now all I have are pocket knives. The best part about buying cheaper knives is if you decide that carving is not for you.Your not out a ton of $$$$$.The main thing I want to learn is the woodspirit.Mabe I can get a few pointers Sunday at Kyles.Check ot the thread in members announcements PEADMONT CRAFTERS. If you can come on down.

 

[Bonecarver]

dude, I am an advid carver. I use Flexcut palm chiseles and gouges because I carve decoys and small faces. If you are looking to carve into furniture the hardwoods used are much harder and the patterns are much bigger. A good basic standard set will run you about $200.00 that is a lamp brand 7 piece set from wood carvers supply, inc. Second, if you buy a better quality of chisel it will hold its edge longer. I do not touch any of my chisels to a grinding wheel I do it all by hand. I haven't really created many nicks in my edges that require me to grind them that much. If you are fearful you will ruin you chisel there are a number of good books on sharpening out there. My motto is this, If you need a piece of equipment and it is going to cost you. It is better to get it now or it will wind up costing you more when you finally do get it. Because of all the frustration and cheaper equipment you collect along the way. Sounds crazy but if you invest in a good set of chisels you will learn to care for them.

 

[CarvedTones]

I have an interchangeable set of the flex cut palm chisels that I use quite a bit for detail in relief. I also use a Veritas marking knife to score clean edges. My favorite "regular" (if there is such a thing) carving knife is a chip knife I got from Japan Woodworker. For "light roughing" a small cavity I use a Warren bent blade. My favorite "medium roughing" tool is a Pfiel sweep gouge. It's about an inch wide with a moderate sweep. My favorite bulk hogging tool is a small sculptor's adze. I have a bunch of other stuff collected over the years that gets very little use, but I do use an ultra cheap set of chisels often to clean up edges and what not in general woodworking. You have to resist the temptation to pull out the carving tools sometimes (IMO).

BTW, I had the same issue with sharpening. I use a rolling guide for my chisels and plane blades. One thing I have found with carving tools is that you generally only want to hone the blade, even if it needs a lot of it. By this I mean pulling the edge across fine abrasives or polishes, not pushing it or (gulp!) grinding it. I got some balsa blanks and shaped them to the profiles of my various tools. I bought the pre-formed ones for the Flex Cuts. I rub polising compound on the balsa and hone. About the most agressive I will do is fine emory paper wrapped over the balsa form.

 

[JOAT]

i've got different views on sharpening than most people. For things like plane irons, that always cut in fixed angles, I belive in sharpening in precise angles, because I believe that's importnt for that type of blade.

But for chisels and the like, because every time you use one, the angle of the cut is always different, so precision in sharpening angles is not needed. A case of close enough is good enough. I use my belt sander to sharpen my lathe chisels, and my theory seems to work well.

For my carving and wood chisels, I haven't used them often enough to sharpen them yet. I don't use my chisel for hand carving by the way, that's what carving mallets are for. I had planned on using my belt sqnder for them also, but recently got a couple of pieces of plate glass, and now plan on setting up a Scary Sharp (TM) system and use that.

I've got about 7 different sizes, and weights, of turned carving mallets. No need for plans for those, just be sure when you turn them you make the handle large and comfortable enough for your hand, and be sure to make the big end flat, so you can stand it on end. I've got one of pine, for light taps, and the largest is heavy dogwood, for really whacking. I made 3 for my oder son, glued two pieces of scrap 2X4 together, and turned them different sizes, and weights; turned out pretty nice. My next one is 3 pieces of oak flooring glued together, just to see how it comes out.

 

[CarvedTones]

When I make a carving that is just a carving, I will generally use a soft wood like bass wood, swamp stump tupelo, mahogany or the like and hand carving without driving the tools is usually more than adequate. But I have also carved ash and maple and I have to admit that is when I turn to power. I have a router base for my Dremel and I also have a Weecher reciprocating attachment with an adapter that lets me use the FlexCut tools in it. I just finished making a router carriage that will let me do major excavating with the plunge router accurately. It will also do thicknessing. I am just starting a jouhikko (ancient Nordic bowed lyre) for someone and I need to excavate roughly 5" x 15" to a depth of almost 2" in rock maple. The aforementioned adze could do this - eventually - but I will start with power. One other power hoggin tool choice has a lot of neanders hang their heads in shame when I call it carving...

NOTE - Plunge cutting is a "normal" operation for my circular saw and it has the power to do it properly. The saw's base plate was kept in contact with the workpiece at all times. Note the depth stop at the bottom of the second picture; this is actually a precise operation. Cleaned up with a chisel.

 

[JOAT]

Right now I've got a couple of old barn beams that will most likel wind up as carvings, as soon as I decide on designs. they're largen enough to section up. And a section of log house wood that'll wind up as a Tike, as soon as I get some stuff cleared out of the shop. They'll all get carved the same way, chisels and mallets. No hand carving, no power. The only power tool I would even consider precise enough for carving is a chainsaw. Altho I am considering modifying a air hammer. My carvings might not be art but they are fun.

Quite awhile back I snapped an old bandsaw blade into about 1 1/2" pieces, then slit sort pieces of 1/2" wide 1/2" plywood for handles, and glued the pieces in. Grind them to shape and sharpen them and they make nifty little carving knives. Could use them for marking knives too, but I prefer those cheap mechanical pencils for that.

 

[CarvedTones]

I use a pencil also. I use the plain old flat carpenter's pencils that won't roll off the bench (but they will turn into missiles if you accidentally bump one with a running belt sander - DAMHIKT). That durn Veritas marking knife doesn't have an eraser for when I put my glasses on and figure out the 8 was really a 6. But the Veritas knife is fantastic for stop cuts and preventing chips at the edge of lines that will get cut with the V tool or veiner.

I keep toying with the idea of getting and ArborTech or King Arthur's attachment for my angle grinder. But the little alarm goes off in my head tell me that this is not the sort of tool I should own because of my propensity for pushing it with free form tools. I am okay with dangerous tools that have strict procedures. When I use my tablesaw, I primarily use a clamping sled. I do sometimes rip against the fence, but I always stand to the side or behind and turn it off between cuts. I respect that tool. The same with my router and circular saw; I set up to do a specific operation that the tool was designed for and don't deviate from how it is to be done. But carving is't that disciplined, which is a big part of its appeal. I do use a glove and thumbguard when appropriate, but I have still spilled a little blood (scars are just tatoos with better stories). I do use sanding wheels on the grinder sometimes. They clean up the bottom of an elliptical bowl pretty well.

I have an old, but historically insignificant, handsaw with a fairly thick blade that I think about making carving tools with someday, but once you use a Pfiel or FlexCut, the bar gets raised so high it's likely that I will be disappointed.