HVLP finishing

Status
Not open for further replies.

Travis Porter

Travis
Corporate Member
Well, tonight was the night I finally broke out the HVLP gun and Target USL water based finish I have had about a month, and I can sincerely say this is the only way to go. I will give SteveD credit, he is right on the money on finishing this way.

In about 3 hours, I have completely topcoated the toy box I have been working on (3 coats), cleaned the gun, and have no mess. Wearing a respirator is a must, ventilation is a must, but enclosing the area with drop cloths for overspray was a waste of time IMO.

I did learn what orange peel was tonight. I though it was the finish peeling, and now know it is the texture of the finish. Didn't have any issues with it, but I at times have comprehension issues.:oops:

I would have pics, but I could not find the camera and LOML was asleep, and we don't wake her up as she is not a happy camper most nights due to my snoring waking her up anyway.:-( So, I will take a few tomorrow night and post then.
 

Grgramps

New User
Roy Hatch
Travis,
Congratulations on your advancement to spraying. Can you tell us more about the equipment you decided on? Coversion gun, turbine system, compressor, etc? This is something that I have been thinking about for months, but have done nothing yet.
Roy
 

Woody

New User
George
Would like to know more about that finishing method also. Had a piece or two sprayed by a pro, but that was costly.
George
 

woodguy1975

New User
John
Steve D said:
:icon_thum Welcome to the slippery slope of spray finishes.:mrgreen:

hehehehehehe.

What is a brush :eusa_thin?????????????????

:icon_thum

Spray finishing is the way to go. I just need to get converted from solvent to waterbased.
 

DavidF

New User
David
I think my only problem on my last finish was it was "dry" from what I have read. Too scared to open the finish flow valve:slap:
 

Travis Porter

Travis
Corporate Member
I bought the Porter Cable HVLP gravity feed conversion gun, I believe model number PSH1. Tom at Woodcraft even rang me up (doesn't remember me though :-( ), but I did get it for 10 percent off so I think total price was $90. I did buy an inline water extractor from Lowes that has the silica in it to keep water out of the lines. I already had a single stage 60 gal, 5hp compressor, so that made the most sense to me, and SteveD's comments about it and getting a gun got me motivated. Just has taken me awhile to use it.

As for finish, I decided to go with Target USL water based lacquer. I was a bit nervous about spraying oil without a booth, and wanted something a bit better than waterbased Poly. I have heard a lot of positives on the Target stuff, SteveD recommended it as well, and the price is actually as good as store bought so it made sense. From what I have read, when you add additional coats, it burns into the existing coat instead of just layering on top of it.

If you have a compressor, I would do a conversion gun. I sprayed 3 coats on what would be the size of a blanket chest with it last night and my compressor started up twice. Pressure from the compressor was down to 60 PSI, and I had the gun set around 37.
 

Travis Porter

Travis
Corporate Member
I know what you mean about that. I learned orange peel very well, but it really is a lot easier to do than a high pressure gun. I have had a Binks high pressure gun for 10 years and used it twice. It was so messy with overspray it was just too much of a hassle. The HVLP was so clean it was shocking to me. You need a respirator that is for sure, but I bought the 3M one from Lowes for about $35 as it was rated for oil based solvents. I stuck a box fan in the window on low and it kept the fumes down. I did try it without either, and that was a mistake. The fumes are not a lot, but getting them out of the shop and breathing clean air even with waterbased lacquer is a must.
 

DavidF

New User
David
What was your spraying distance Travis - there seem to be conflicting advise from 2" - 8" max.
 

Travis Porter

Travis
Corporate Member
I was going about 6 to 10 inches. Any further didn't seem to get it on the wood and closer too much finish. I think it depends on how you have the gun adjusted.
 

woodguy1975

New User
John
8" is the recommended distance for HVLP. You will learn to apply a wet coat. If you don't apply enough it doesn't flow out. YOu apply too much and it will run. Not enough atomization pressure and you orange peel. Then of course there is drying the peice. You want some airflow to help get rid of the solvents, but too much airflow and the finish will orange peel because it didn't have time to flow out. No air flow and you get slow drying. There are lots of lessons you learn as you go. You get the "feel" for it. I actually adjust my air flow by sound. As you get used to your gun and a particular finish you learn what needs to be done. Change finish and you have to relearn it all for that finish. I go back and try to spray a poly and have all sorts of problems getting it lay down the way I like it.

There is no spray finish like lacquer. Shellac comes in a close second, but poly and varnish are far behind. At least for me.

Good Luck,

John
 

Steve D

Member
Steve DeWeese
Like everything else, there is a learning curve but spraying opens up so many options it is well worth mastering. Practice is important and best done on things other than projects (cardboard boxes). John is exactly right that you get a feel for your equipment and a given finish. Once you get the hang of it you just set up and go. FYI Travis, I normally spray 3 coats of the USL, sand smooth and spray a final coat.
 

dave_the_woodworker

New User
Update your profile with your name
If you like Target's USL you might also like to try their water-based shellac, Ultraseal WB. Shellac is great for sealing stains or glazes from topcoats, water based layers from solvent based layers, etc. When I first heard about a water based version of shellac I thought it would never work as well as alcohol based shellac. But the more I used it the more it acted exactly like regular alcohol based shellac - except it won't blow up! As you mentioned, it still makes sense to wear a respirator but this stuff is far friendlier to your lungs than alcohol.

I mostly use water based stains and topcoats. Shellac was the only product that I still had to put up with that was fairly toxic and flammable. With Ultraseal, I don't see much need to use any solvent based spray products.
 

William Bender

New User
William Bender
The dreaded orange peel this can be avoided with a little practice, well visable orange peel. I highly recommend the porter cable hvlp sprayer as well. I tried all the high doller $1000.00 sprayers and pressure pots and what not, they are great but just not for me. If I was too tired after spraying 12-15 hrs straight I didn't feel like cleaning gun and $100.00 isn't that hard to find. Anyways, orange peel and distance to object. You really need to find some scrap wood and sand it properly and test out on that. You have the pressure to the gun a bladder pressure adjust on the gun an opening valve on the gun, a particle adjuest, .... they all combine to fit the sprayer. If you are someone who likes to move slowly and close setup 25lbs pressure and medium particle. Oh and MAKE SURE you have particle flow as if it were water consistancy, if you don't thin thin thin. If you move quickly like I do increase the pressure to 40 put the particle flow to med-high and be about 8-10 inches away. I could write a book about this ... So long short, if laquering or multi-coating you can lay the finish down quickly just without pooling and have sprayer close. When you go for that final topcoat that will just be buffed with a rag or compound pull the sprayer back to avoid any streaking. Has anyone gotten together to run a finishing seminar among this group? Anyways the other main IMPORTANT part prior to spraying is prep sanding, if you take away all the pours your finish will have nothing to bond to and if you just use an orbital and don't straight line sand you are bound to have hook and loop marks. Hope this helps a little. After everything I have finished I am still learning, it never ends. Great resourse is a guy at Raleigh Hardwood Center, Greg Donnelly.


William
 
Last edited by a moderator:

mshel

New User
Michael Shelley
Travis Porter said:
I bought the Porter Cable HVLP gravity feed conversion gun, I believe model number PSH1.

As for finish, I decided to go with Target USL water based lacquer.

Travis,

Where are you purchasing your USL? I am interested in trying the HVLP gun and would like to give the USL a try. BTW, I see there are three models of that gun, what is the basic difference between the PSH1, PSH2, PSH3, other than the obvious price differences?

Mike
 

Gofor

Mark
Corporate Member
I've used a spray gun a little (30+ years painting acft, etc). If you haven't sprayed before, I recommend some practice to get familiar with the equipment and techniques. If you are planning to spray water-based coatings, water is a cheap material to practice with. After you are done, tho, run a little denatured or isoproply alcohol through the gun to "dry" it out so nothing corrodes. Also do this before switching to lacquer or oil based.
First, tape some large pieces of cardboard (best), rolled kraft paper (better), or newspaper(acceptable) to the side of your house or someother water proof surface. If using the papers, tape the edges well enough so it doesn't flap around when you spray.
Second, fill the gun and get the feel of the trigger. If set properly, you will get just air as you pull it back, and then a little further you will get fluid. (If this doesn't happen, refer to your manual on adjustments. You may need to adjust the needle setting, which I can walk you through if necessary). Shooting into the air or ground, get the feel of how the trigger moves and then start changing the air and fluid adjustments. This will give you an idea of how they affect the spray pattern and density.
Third: Now its time to use the paper. With the air cap snug and the wing tips hoizontal Hold the gun away frum the paper about the distance from your little finger to the end of your thumb with the hand splayed out (8 - 10")With the gun pointing directly at the paper, hold it still and pull the trigger full open for about 1/2 second. You should have an vertical strip of even width from top to bottom. This is the spray pattern. If it is round or noticeably oval, Open the air (pattern adjustment) or increase the air pressure (start out at about 35 PSI) IF it is heavy at top and bottom and narrow in the middle open the fluid adjustment or decrease air pressure.
Keep adjusting it until you get an even pattern. (the extreme top and bottom will not be distinct,)
Fourth: After the pattern is set, its time to work on spray technique. This is Very important. Without pulling the trigger, move the gun back and forth about 2 1/2 to 3 feet concentrating on moving it in a straight line, Keeping it perpendicular to the surface, and keeping it the same distance from the paper. Remember, You're spraying paint, not waving at flies. When you have that movement comfortable then its time to get things wet
Fifth. This sequence is the most important thing to learn in spraying coatings and involves developing muscle memory. The sequence is (1) Start moving the gun, (2) Pull the trigger, (3) release the trigger at the end of the stroke BEFORE (4) stop moving. Anytime you pull the trigger without the gun moving, you will get runs.
Sixth: Spray back and forth, overlapping each stroke by about 50%. The goal is to apply an even coat of wetness over the entire area without any water running down the paper.
When you get to that point, get some cardboard boxes and spray the inside and outside. Experiment with less fluid/air & air pressure, which will give you a smaller spray pattern for tight areas or narrow surfaces.
Another practice that will come in handy is to rotate the air cap so the wing tips are at the top and bottom. This will give you a horizontal spray pattern, so your stroke will be up and down. This is useful for spraying the outside of tall pieces of furniture, and will give you the capability to spray with the grain, even on the insides of shelf backs, etc, without having to fill the cup all the way up. Gravity feed guns don't work turned on their sides. Spraying with the grain minimizes any unevenness in coating thickness where your strokes overlap when spraying translucent coatings or stains, as the color variation is running with the grain and blends in better.
Got all that? Good, now go back and do it again wearing a repirator. Even "water-based" paints will put you on the floor or cause serious health problems if sprayed without a respirator. Make sure it is one rated for "Organic Vapors" The filter (and it will have one) should have 'NIOSH" and "rated for OV" printed on it. (It may have other letters also, denoting other toxins it has been approved for)

Sorry this is so wordy, but if you spray any furniture before you can evenly wet a cardboard box, you probably won't be happy with the results.
It does take some practice, but really isn't that hard, and will open up a realm of coatings available to you that can't be applied with a brush.
Good luck with it , experiment and have fun!!:lol:
Go
 

D L Ames

New User
D L Ames
Go, thanks for your excellent post on setting up and using a spray gun.:icon_thum Your post is definitely a keeper. I even copied and pasted it to a Word document so I would have it readily available. Spraying finishes is definitely one of the many areas I need to improve my skills in.

D L
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Premier Sponsor

Our Sponsors

LATEST FOR SALE LISTINGS

Top