Help setting the blade in Stanley Bailey #4 plane!!

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Gofor

Mark
Corporate Member
From the photos, it appears the frog is actually set too far back. I think the iron is hitting the boss that the frog aligns on instead of sitting flat against the frog face. This is causing the edge of the blade to rotate out and forward.

I would completely remove the frog and clean out any chips, rust, debris that would cause it not to sit firm on the shoe casting. When re-installing it, move it about 1/2 the distance you have now closer to the back edge of the mouth. The front of that boss that the frog aligns on has to be below the surface of the frog when you tighten it down to solidly bed the iron.

The other thing I see is that the flat edge of the iron appears raised on the front 1/8" and maybe even bent forward (altho that could be camera parallax). The fact that it has enough ridge to hold sawdust behind it is definitely not right. The front of the chip breaker should set pretty close to the area where that "ridge" appears to be, and maybe even a bit closer to the edge. If it is in fact bent forward, the iron probably has lost its temper, and is not hard enough to hold an edge. May need a new iron. (HD has some $3 2" Buck Bros irons that will fit, but will need a lot of work flattening the mill cutter marks out of the "back" before you will get any fine shavings from them. After that work is done, they hold an edge Almost as well as new Stanley irons IMHO).

You have some work ahead of you flattening that iron and getting the pits out of the edge. When finished, that back should be shiny as a mirror and completely flat (Yeah, the front of the iron when installed in the plane is actually called the "back". Just another term that all the old galoots use to confound those of us whom try to follow behind them!).

I think with the iron flattened and the frog moved forward about 1/64" to 1/32" will solve the problem without doing any filing on the mouth.

Hope this helps, and welcome to the world of old, used, abused hand planes.

Go

PS: The markings on yours are identical to the 5C Bailey that I have. Mine is missing the lateral lever and has a cracked base on the front knob. Here is a picture of it with the Buck Bros iron I radiused for when I use it as a scrub plane. It works well as a Jack, too, with the regular blade.
 

eyekode

New User
Salem
The picture I was looking for was one with the frog and plane assembled. Wanna bring it by my garage? I have 2 #5s we can check parts against.
Salem
 

Charlie Buchanan

Charlie
Corporate Member
That looks like a type 11 (1910-1918) since it has 3 dates and a small iron adjustment nut. A very good working plane when you get it set up right. The mouth looks about normal to me.

I think Gofor spotted the problem. If that black boss is above the level of the frog face then the iron won't sit on the face. Is the iron flat? Can't tell from photo if there is a bend or if that is maybe a reflection in a really shiny surface?
Definitely take the frog out and clean all those chips out as well as any rust on the mating surfaces. Clean out any gunk around the back of the frog--anything that might prevent it from making good contact with the milled surfaces of base. It should sit flat with no wobble without the screws being tight.

It'll make a nice user.
 

bluedawg76

New User
Sam
yeah, i'm thinking this just needs a second pair of eyes and/or a swap. just for fun (or brain strain) I calcluated the required mouth opening for a 0.1" thick plane iron set in a 45 degree frog to be 0.141". However if the iron is more like 0.095" then it's 0.134". So if you've got a 0.14" mouth opening, then you may have a whole 0.006" to spare! Of course my trig is about as rusty that old plane!
 

Gofor

Mark
Corporate Member
Sam, what you are not figuring is that the back of the mouth is beveled back at 45 degrees, more than the bevel on the iron, so the iron never touches the back of the mouth unless the iron is way over-extended. The 1/16th (approx) thick sole is beveled back at 45 degrees, for about 3/32" slope length. An iron beveled at 25 degree primary and 30 degree secondary is going to have about a 3/8" slope. Only a few thousandths of the tip of the iron at most actually extend past the mouth opening on the sole. This results in only approx 1/2 the thickness of the standard iron being affected by the slope on the back of the mouth. The only time the iron thickness comes into play is if is so thick that the boss that guides the frog is touching the iron.

My figures are approximate, but unless the iron bevel is over 45 degrees, or the iron is well over .0125", there should be no problem getting chip clearance in front of the iron.

Go
 

willarda

New User
Bill Anderson
Based on your dimensions, either the frog is too far forward or there is something interferring either with the seating of the blade on the frog bed or the seating of the frog on its ways. The bevel on the blade will not impact how the blade peaks through the mouth. Do not put a back bevel on the blade to get it to go through! Check to see that the frog is not loose and is resting flat on its ways. Sometimes shavings or junk get underneath a frog that is loose and this could elevate it.
 
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