Foyer Floor Damage~No Water from last night

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MrAudio815

New User
Matthew
Hey Everyone,


Update: Contacted insurance people. They called yesterday when we were gone selling our 98 Acura TL, and haven't called back.


Anyway yesterdays big rain storm that we had should have surely left some water puddles in the front foyer area. NOPE

It is as dry as a bone. So again I am thinking it was the wet shoes and umbrella's that we had laying there???

Since the Laminate is only 3/8" thick total and the hardwood veneer that was on top was veneer size 1/32 or 1/64??? Very thin and the rest was like card board/MDF something that soaks up water like a sponge.

And I haven't caulked anything yet.

Thanks for any extra advice~!



Reply to Jim update: Yeah Jim I would think there would be a leak from that too, especially after yesterdays rain storm.

The front foyer is dry as a bone. No water pooling, no dampness at all. So how could it be a roof leak if there was no water from yesterdays heavy rain storm???:icon_scra




First of all I noticed that my laminate flloring was bubbling up and water damage. I pulled up the laminate tonight and this is what I found. I found the laminate where the water damage was feel apart when I was pulling it up.

The Advantec is still moist and I can poke holes a 1/8" or more into it.

I bought a pack of Spice colored oak 3/4" thick X 2 1/4" wide X various lengths at $59.00 for 20sq ft.

Now What should I do with the Advantec? Should I do this myself or Should I pay the $39 dollars to lowes to have them install and fix it? (I do get the 10% military discount)
I have never done flooring and don't have a lot of time. Also the laminate is only 3/8" thick where as the oak is 3/4" double the size. Is the oak going to be to tall for the door or carpet area? Help!
:help: :help: :help: :help: :help: :help:

And here are the pic's:



Bottom of boards











Not all of the subfloor is bad obviously.



 
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Skymaster

Jack
Senior User
Re: Foyer Floor Damage NEED HELP~!

wow, first and foremost have you found,stopped,repaired the source of that water? I wood knot put anything down until the subfloor is COMPLETELY DRY thru and thru, then I wood replace all water damaged substrate Then and ONLY then wood I consider putting new flooring down.
Regards Lowe's doing it OOHHHHHH RAAAAAAAHHHHH YESSIR for 35 bucks and all you have to do is watch,drink coffee, tell em to do it over LOL Roger that. :gar-Bi :gar-La;

PLUS they have to guarantee the job!!!!!!!! SIR I could KNOT start my truck to come to your house and do if for free for that price :rotflm::rotflm:

Checked your bio. :} I am Keesler alumni :}:} Thank you for your service. My nephew is USAF.
 
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PChristy

New User
Phillip
Re: Foyer Floor Damage NEED HELP~!

I agree with Jack on finding the source of the water damage and fixing it before you put any new flooring down - as far as Lowe's doing/fixing it you better make sure that is the price for just installing there flooring - they might charge you additional for repairs such as this - When we do a job we give them a cost/plus price and that is a price for the job itself - the plus will be if there is anything that is under there that can't be seen and needs to be fixed - hopefully someone close from NCWW can get there and help you with this
 

Bas

Recovering tool addict
Bas
Corporate Member
Re: Foyer Floor Damage NEED HELP~!

+1 what everyone else said about the subfloor.

As for having Lowe's come install it, $39 is an awfully good price. Hard to beat that. But, that probably doesn't cover things like cutting door jambs, trimming doors, installing a carpet-wood floor transition etc. I'd check that first. Still, getting a bare bones install would be worth it, even if you have to do all this prep work yourself. For such a small area, you could install the floor using a brad nailer, but a real floor nailer works much better. Renting one of those will be more than $39.
 

MrAudio815

New User
Matthew
Re: Foyer Floor Damage NEED HELP~!

Well I have to say I was way wrong on the $39 Lowes in stall. I saw there sign outside there buidling a week ago and thought it applied to hardwoods too, it's only for carpet. At least it was, it's now $139 for carpet.

It's a minimum of $250 for hardwood install and for such a small area, I don't want to pay that price.

Now about finding the water source. I know My wife and I would leave all our wet shoes in that area, plus umbrella's. Not sure if that is enough to make that mess. I do know when we first moved in there was a little water damage, barely noticeable, and it got worse. I noticed it looking worse and worse over time and haven't really checked on it in 3 or 4 months and we have had a lot of rain and wet shoes/umbrella's.

Do you think shoes and umbrella's would be the culprit or something more?

I have a brad nailer, staple nailer, and finish nail all PC.

If any NCWW is willing to help I would be greatly appreciated and cook some Venison. I also just cut up some ERC for bowl blanks, pen blanks, and some larger 2"X2"X6+ inches.

Thanks
 

nelsone

New User
Ed
Re: Foyer Floor Damage NEED HELP~!

Shoes and umbrellas would not be enough to cause that. You need to find the source before replacing thing. I that an exterior wall? I was having problems with water and found the caulking around the sidelights of my entry door had failed. Most of this type of work is pretty basic and somewhat intuitive. Don't rush.
 

Skymaster

Jack
Senior User
Re: Foyer Floor Damage NEED HELP~!

I am supposedly moving into the new house in Zebulon next month. If you still need help once Jan rolls in I will be glad to help ya.
FIRST you have to locate and repair that leak, NO wet shoes and umbrellas would not do that damage. That leak has been going on for a loooong time based on your photo's.
Can you give us more info: exterior wall? window or doors close by, overhangin soffits. ect?
How about plumbing in the wall?
OK I see the door just left of the spot. I wood inspect that door installation with a microscope :}, the stains seem darker rignt in the corner and seem to be running along the sill plate and further into the room. May well be bad flashing over the door, caulking failed at the house joint etc. Do not put anything down until you have 100% watertight conditions.:no:
 

PChristy

New User
Phillip
Re: Foyer Floor Damage NEED HELP~!

Matthew, that looks like an interior wall with the door to the left - Do you know if there is any damage on the other side of that wall (if it is an interior) - If it isn't any damage - How long have you been living there and you did say that there was some water damage when you moved in - I know with the my wife working at a laminating flooring factory - she tells the customers that you are not suppose to leave water on it for a long period of time - the water will seep through the joints over that time - We had laminate in our kitchen and the valve busted under the sink while we were coming home from vacation - with that little time with the water lying on the flooring it buckled up over the next few days because it got down into the joints - we had to change it and luckly we did not have damage under it - I do believe that if you have been lying the wet shoes and umbrella there for a long period of time this could cause the problem you have - Don't take my word for it - check everything that you can -

I am not sure if your finish nailer will be good enough to hold this down with the traffic that will come through there - It may if it will shoot 2.5 nails -
 

MrAudio815

New User
Matthew
Re: Foyer Floor Damage NEED HELP~!

Matthew, that looks like an interior wall with the door to the left - Do you know if there is any damage on the other side of that wall (if it is an interior) - If it isn't any damage - How long have you been living there and you did say that there was some water damage when you moved in - I know with the my wife working at a laminating flooring factory - she tells the customers that you are not suppose to leave water on it for a long period of time - the water will seep through the joints over that time - We had laminate in our kitchen and the valve busted under the sink while we were coming home from vacation - with that little time with the water lying on the flooring it buckled up over the next few days because it got down into the joints - we had to change it and luckly we did not have damage under it - I do believe that if you have been lying the wet shoes and umbrella there for a long period of time this could cause the problem you have - Don't take my word for it - check everything that you can -

I am not sure if your finish nailer will be good enough to hold this down with the traffic that will come through there - It may if it will shoot 2.5 nails -

When we moved in Jan 2008 the front foyer had water marks ontop of the floor very minor, just dicolored the flooring slightly and I just thought it was wear.

Well a few times last year when it rained and we left our shoes on the wood. (We keep about 9 to 10 pairs of shoes there). We would have guest and take the shoes to the back room and I would notice water from our wet shoes on the flooring and wipe it up.

Unless it was the window by the door??? We have noticed condensation on the inside of the window and only that one, Enough to make a paper wet.

Our wet shoes would sit there 3-9 days without being moved except when putting on to leave.

Finish Nailer shoots up to 2 1/2" and PC stapler up 1" All that was in the 3/8 laminate was 1/2" or slightly longer staples, some where under the laminate :slap:


Gonna have a Party on Saturday the 5th and my wife wants it done???:BangHead: Will give someone my PM2000 workbench I have listed for the help~!
 

skysharks

New User
John Macmaster
Re: Foyer Floor Damage NEED HELP~!

Matt
You know that I have done this work.
Someone said to check all around that door for entrance areas for water. That is exactly correct. Damaged siding/exterior. How about the landing on the exterior of that door.
Does water puddle right there during rain.
There is almost no way that shoes can have that much water on them, for it to penetrate to the sub-floor and make the sub-floor rot like that.
What is on the opposite side of that wall to the right in the picture. IS there a window there????
If so I might suspect that the widow is leaking into the wall. Inspect the flashing of that window. Check all around that window on the outside.
How old is the house???
It could be a small leak, but I would bet that it is running under that sill plate.
Repairing that floor isn't all that hard. Finding the water entrance point sometimes can be.:dontknow:
Matt I believe you can fix that floor.:icon_thum Call me if you need some guidance.

MAC
 

Trent Mason

New User
Trent Mason
Re: Foyer Floor Damage NEED HELP~!

You've gotten some great advice already. I'm betting that is an exterior wall. As a few people have suggested, when it rains, see if that water puddles up outside. You want to fix that problem first, before you even think about replacing the floor.

Also, you should probably pull the shoe molding and baseboard right there and I'd bet you the drywall is wet behind it. If it is, drill 1" holes between the studs (below baseboard level) and get a fan blowing some air to dry it.
 
M

McRabbet

Re: Foyer Floor Damage NEED HELP~!

Matthew,

Believe it or not, the source of the water could be well above where you'd expect -- if there are gutters, check to be certain that they are draining completely -- they can overflow if the downspout is blocked. There could also be a roof leak that is allowing water to travel down to the top of the wall and down to your entry. If there are no gutters, then water could be coming down from the soffit or from the ground splatter at the base of the exterior wall if there is no place for it to drain. Whereever it is coming it, you must find the source and stop it from further entry. Then deal with the repairs as guys have suggested above.
 

gdoebs

Geoff
Corporate Member
Re: Foyer Floor Damage NEED HELP~!

I'd get my garden hose and hose down that entire wall/roof and have someone inside (or you in and someone else out) to see if you can tell where it's coming from. Start hosing at the bottom so it's easier to locate the leak.

I'm wondering if there'd be a way to add food coloring (?) to the water to see it better. Just as long as it would wash off the outside walls.:rotflm:

One more thing: If the window is above the damaged area, I'd remove the drywall from the floor up to the window and inspect the wall. It may be easier to find where the water is coming from.

Party on the 5th? Maybe a well placed area rug?
 

MrAudio815

New User
Matthew
Re: Foyer Floor Damage NEED HELP~!

The Door has one of those tall small windows next to it and no sheet rock that I can see.

In pic below is the door with window to the right with the green curtain and the most moisture is in that corner. The wall to the right with the light switches that are not in the pictures has nothing wrong. I have hit the sheetrock all around and it is solid. I think it is the flashing or sealant window leak.


Now how should I cut this advantec out? Drill a hole, then jig saw it out? Add a 2x4 to the floor joist for support of new advantec flooring? Does that sound about right? I'll use some pure 100% shower type silicon when I scrap the old away and probably use some under the flashing area, if that sounds about right.

Also the short side of the Roof is above this area and meets the siding on the house and goes up another 10 ft or so to the tallest part of the roof. The is directly above the support wall to the right of the door in the picture. I went into the bonus room area and there is no damage up there so it is again most likely the flashing.

Thanks for the advice, and if anyone can/will help I will be Very Thankful~!
 
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Tarhead

Mark
Corporate Member
Re: Foyer Floor Damage NEED HELP~!

I would wait until you've isolated the source of the water before you tear out the old subfloor. If you don't do it by the time of your party cut a piece(s) of subfloor material the size of the foyer and screw it (them) down and decorate with some funny saying like "Ask Matthew about this!" It'll be a conversation starter and no one will fall through the floor or trip. You'll also have your subfloor ready to go once you find the leak.

I agree with the others in it probably is an external leak (especially with the rain we got over the past few weeks) but don't overlook an internal source. What's on the other side of the wall where the water is located? I would start looking there and work up. Icemaker water lines, faucet/toilet water shutoffs, shower/tub drains and washer hoses are interior things that have leaked on me in my years of home ownership.
 

Tarhead

Mark
Corporate Member
Re: Foyer Floor Damage NEED HELP~!

I would use regular exterior caulk. Interior silicone is not the right stuff for this application.
Your homeowner's insurance should cover this repair.
 

Gofor

Mark
Corporate Member
Re: Foyer Floor Damage NEED HELP~!

Matt: I know of at least 3 houses in this area that have the same kind of damage. One of them is only 2 years old. All had south or southwest facing doors (the area that the rain comes from) and no gutters. 3 had the door right under where there was a valley in the roof that dumped all the water down and then it blew in around the door. The amount of water in a heavy rain won't be stopped by just a door seal.

The best quick fix for the water is to install a storm door, altho you may want to check the structure under the door sill before you call the repair complete. Gutters need to come also, but the storm door will stop further water intrusion. I would not place any repair over wet wood or advantek until it has thoroughly dried. The mold that can build up comes in a variety of types, some which are quite toxic.

JMTCW

Go
 

MrAudio815

New User
Matthew
Re: Foyer Floor Damage NEED HELP~!

Matt: I know of at least 3 houses in this area that have the same kind of damage. One of them is only 2 years old. All had south or southwest facing doors (the area that the rain comes from) and no gutters. 3 had the door right under where there was a valley in the roof that dumped all the water down and then it blew in around the door. The amount of water in a heavy rain won't be stopped by just a door seal.

The best quick fix for the water is to install a storm door, altho you may want to check the structure under the door sill before you call the repair complete. Gutters need to come also, but the storm door will stop further water intrusion. I would not place any repair over wet wood or advantek until it has thoroughly dried. The mold that can build up comes in a variety of types, some which are quite toxic.

JMTCW

Go

My wife called around a few places today and the guy said that a few houses when it rains a lot sideways or splashes up said it can go under the door if we don't have a storm door, but if it did I would think more water damage would be right under the door right opening area.

I checked the caulk on the outside of the door and it seems to be missing two small strips at the bottom left and rigth side, like it was never put there??? I'll take pictures tomorrow.

Also the floor is quite a bit dryer today, sounds like wood again when I knock on hit, and feels dry even in the bad spot.

Now should I just let this old water damaged floor dry and put the oak down. Or should I rip up the water damaged advantec and put new stuff down?


There are no water pipes anywhere near the front door, it opens up to the family room.

Heres a bad picture of the front of the house. The water damage is right below that window next to the door on the left. and we have no storm door.
 

gritz

Robert
Senior User
Re: Foyer Floor Damage NEED HELP~!

You have a flashing leak on the roof, or a gutter overflow problem which is finding it's way into the side wall.
 

Tarhead

Mark
Corporate Member
Re: Foyer Floor Damage NEED HELP~!

A picture is worth a few thousand words. Call your insurance agent and get a roofing company out to find and fix the leak and a contractor to fix the floor and the wall. I imagine you've got a good mold growth going inside the sheetrock and beneath the subfloor in the foyer. If you can climb under there you should check it out with a screwdriver and make sure no rot has started.
Go ahead and caulk the door but the leak is not coming from there. That area is well protected from all but hurricanes.
 
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