Deck questions

[Rob]

We're looking into having our 20+ year old deck replaced. In the process of getting some qoutes now. What do I need to ask the builder? Probably going to use pressure treated, wood grade? Stainless steel screws? etc? What do I need to look for? Having never had any major renovations done, or ever hire a contractor I'm going to be asking lots of questions and probably be his worst customer. I know we'll need permits, which they are supposed to take care of, did some researching of the two we're getting qoutes from on Angies list to see what others have said. Anything else I should know before venturing into this?

 

[ptt49er]

I'm not much help on the questions to ask, but good luck! That's going to be a fun job for who ever does it!

 

[Rob]

I'm not much help on the questions to ask, but good luck! That's going to be a fun job for who ever does it!

Reason why I'm contracting it and not doing it myself.

 

[jhreed]

Go see some of their finished work and talk to the customer. This is a must. If all you have is the price and material specifications, that will still not tell you the quality of their work.
James

 

[Bas]

We're looking into having our 20+ year old deck replaced. In the process of getting some qoutes now. What do I need to ask the builder? Probably going to use pressure treated, wood grade? Stainless steel screws? etc? What do I need to look for? Having never had any major renovations done, or ever hire a contractor I'm going to be asking lots of questions and probably be his worst customer. I know we'll need permits, which they are supposed to take care of, did some researching of the two we're getting qoutes from on Angies list to see what others have said. Anything else I should know before venturing into this?

I'd get a book at Lowe's or Home Depot, if only to be familiar with the terms and line up your expectations. Also, Angie's list is great to get a list of candidates, but call the references. Even better, go ask if you can see the final result.

The worst customer is not the customer who asks the most questions. Every electrician, carpenter, GC and plumber I've talked to has said that the worst customer is someone who keeps changing his or her mind. Asking questions shows you've done your homework, you know what you want, and that you understand about the cost of fasteners, support/ footings, why KD lumber is better etc. I wouldn't not tell them they're cutting the boards incorrectly or should hold the hammer in a different way

Good questions to ask:

• How much weight the deck can support?
• Besides PT lumber, what other options are there for material?
• What is the spacing between railings?
• How many steps will the stairs have?
• What should I use to finish the deck?
• Will the wood shrink?
• Which part of the projects need to be inspected, and when?

I've found that the best contractors are the ones who take the time to walk you through the process and explain what is and isn't included, e.g. who removes the trash, how is the furniture/ landscaping/ protected, when is payment due (e.g. deposit for materials), what is the expected competition date, what time do they start etc. Be wary of people who are vague, reply to everything with "no problem", and make stuff up as they go along. They may mean well and and even be skilled craftsmen, but that doesn't mean they can run a business.

 

[CrealBilly]

You mean the whole deck or repair what needs to repaired and replace the decking?

 

[Rob]

Whole deck, it has rotted posts, I've already had to replace one, boards pulling up, the stringers under the deck are bad also.

 

[Dean Maiorano]

To answer one of your questions, here's a source for fastener (and general deck building) information:

http://www.deckmagazine.com/article/209.html

 

[Cato]

+1 on getting a deck book from a big box store. It will familiarize you with the process, and make it a lot easier to see how it is done.

You may find like I did once I read it, a couple of times, and got a price from the contractor, I decided to build it myself.

Took my time and I did have a pick up truck at the time so I just went and picked up lumber as I needed it.

 

[Gotcha6]

Don't forget to get a permit. NC Building Code requires a permit now for ALL deck construction and replacement. Your local Code Enforcement Official can assist you in defining minimum requirements.

 

[Wolfpacker]

Decks.com also may help with more info.

 

[gritz]

We just finished one, and here are some things we looked at and what we did:

Through-bolted to the house rim joists per local code.
Doubled the rim joists on the deck.
Used joists sized for span, 16" joist spacing and joist hangers; we used 2x10.
Used concealed fasteners for deckboards; we used deckmaster.
Used post anchors with through bolts and elevated steel supports; we used Simpson ABU.
Used angle struts fram posts to joists to prevent racking.
Used powder coated aluminum pickets between 2x4 rails, raised to allow sweeping.
Composites may bloom with internal mold anywhere the wood fiber is not perfectly encased.
We used treated cypress decking with cedar posts and rails on the handrails.

 

[DaveD]

Be sure to go see some of the contractors recent work.

Don't tell him how you want it done. Have him tell you how he is going to do it. The challenge is to find a deck builder you can trust. They should be insured and bonded. If a fly by night builder gets hurt on your property you will probably be liable for the medical expenses, lost work, etc.

You shouldn't have to pay more than a token amount up front. If its an expensive deck then learn about lien releases and use them to protect yourself. Be sure the builder pulls the permits (and not you).

Common problems I have seen over the years:
Fasteners not compatible with treated lumber, composite decking, and/or commercial hangers/brackets
Some composites don't like constant beating sun
Incorrect flashing to the house
Incorrect fastening to house structure
Posts for railings nailed to structure rather than brackets and approved fasteners
Jerks using pneumatic staplers rather than nailers
Jerks using pneumatic nailers and haphazardly nailing everything in sight
Building to minimum code
Building and not meeting even the minimum code
The guy giving the estimate doesn't do the work and sends the can't walk and chew gum at the same time crew to do the work

Remember code is minimum. Congratulations your deck passed with a D- grade.

Here is a PDF file based on the 2009 International residential code. I haven't kept up with what NC uses though. Deck code have drastically changed over the last 10 or 15 years. What worked even 10 years ago is marginal in today's world.
http://www.awc.org/Publications/DCA/DCA6/DCA6-09.pdf

There are various pictures and articles on the WWW about catastrophic deck failures. The higher it is off the ground the more a failed deck gets your attention.

Having said all that, I'll have to say building a deck isn't rocket science and many people can/do build their own. I've done more than my fair share over the years.

You just have to educate yourself and be willing to perform the physical labor side of it. Hauling the lumber to where you need it is a job for people a lot younger than me. I quit that heavy stuff when I turned 60 and don't miss it a bit.

 

[merrill77]

Probably going to use pressure treated, wood grade?

How long do you plan to stay in the house?

The one thing I wish I'd done different on my porch floor is the wood. I discovered Ipe a few years after building our porch. If I had known about it, I would have used it. My brother-in-law re-surfaced his deck with Ipe and I love that stuff. Hard, dense and tough as nails, lasts practically forever exposed to the elements and has the same fire rating as concrete (really!). And most importantly (for my kids feet), it doesn't splinter. Material cost, though, is 2-3x higher. Labor cost might be a little more too, since they'll have to pre-drill every screw hole.

I used interior-grade T&G pine treated with something I think he called ?pentahexane? It doesn't discolor the wood like the old arsenic treatment. It's nice stuff, but it's pine, so it splinters and it wears unevenly.

Just my 2c
Chris

 

[Rob]

Thanks guys, exactly what I was looking for. We had our first estimate this morning. Asked about a lot of this, premium wood used, galvenized screws, he said we could use stainless, but he didn't think it was worth the cost. Getting a sencond qoute tonight.

 

[DaveD]

If you are using ACQ treated umber you need either hot dipped galvanized or stainless steel fasteners. Some people will even debate if the HDG is ok. Electroplated hangers or nails won't be good enough. It will probably all boil down to you trusting the builder to do the right thing.

If you are going the ACQ route, do a google search on acq lumber fasteners to find all kinds of info.

The simpson hanger site
http://www.safestronghome.com/deck/index.asp?source=hpnav
also has a wealth of info to educate you.

 

[jhreed]

Rob, +1 on what Chris Merrill said on the IPE decking. I is beautiful wood. Tight straigt grain. Sinks in water, dense as I do not know what. I have a small porch with th 5/4 IPE decking with hidden fasteners. It is kind of expensive, but if you use it you will always be proud of your deck. You will never say, I wish I had spent a little more to get a much nicer deck. I stained mine with red mahogany stain.
James

 

[Rob]

I'm finding that if you want your top boards screwed down vs. nailed, you better ask, so far everyone wants to nail and try to tell me it's just as strong. Also both guys want to sink the posts into concrete, vs. pouring the footers and setting the posts on mounts. My research shows concrete is pourous, holds water, and speeds up rot in the post over time.

 

[Marlin]

Yea I would use proper mounts on poured footing.

Preassure treated wood does not mean it will never rot and like you said the water will get to it and rot it out.

The reason many like to put the post in the concrete is its faster, but does not meet code in many places.

Even if you don;t get a permit go to the Permit office website as they usually have little how-to's for things like decks and basements etc...

Here is what my permit office has and they also agree on the footing...

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dpwes/publications/decks/details.pdf

 

[kooshball]

Yea I would use proper mounts on poured footing.

Preassure treated wood does not mean it will never rot and like you said the water will get to it and rot it out.

The reason many like to put the post in the concrete is its faster, but does not meet code in many places.

Even if you don;t get a permit go to the Permit office website as they usually have little how-to's for things like decks and basements etc...

Here is what my permit office has and they also agree on the footing...

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dpwes/publications/decks/details.pdf

It is much safer to get a permit than not; honestly I do not understand why people don't pull permits when structural work is being done in an area inhabited by people. I am not a lawyer but if a deck collapsed and it came to be known that the deck was built without a permit (and not to code) I can only assume that a huge lawsuit would follow.

Do it once; do it right.