D2 steel good for scrapers?

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Ken Kimbrell

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Ken
Been searching around the Triad for steel supplier that would be a good source for steel to make scrapers and one place has told me that D2 steel would work OK for that purpose.

So, my knowledge of metal types is limited, thus the question... would a 3/8 x 1 piece of D2 flat make a good scraper? :help:


Thanks... Ken.

Ps: Since buying my lathe I haven't disappeared, just doing lots of practice and studying. My output has mostly a been bowls and small boxes plus several handles and a few turning tools. Making my own tools is a good learning exercise and the lower cost of doing so nets me more tools overall. :icon_thum
The few pieces that have come off the lathe so far don't rate a posting, but soon I plan to start turning some Christmas ornaments and will post a few of those.
 

Mike Davis

Mike
Corporate Member
If properly heat treated it will be great for a lathe tool. D2 is a decent grade tool steel, there are better but the price will be higher too.

Most any tool steel will be far better than plain carbon which is plenty good for wood cutting tools.



D-grade tool steels contain between 10% and 18% chromium. These steels retain their hardness up to a temperature of 425 °C (797 °F). Common applications for these grade of tool steel is forging dies, die-casting die blocks, and drawing dies. Due to high chromium content, certain D-grade tool steel grades are often considered stainless or semi-stainless tool steels. However their corrosion resistance was very limited due to the precipitation of major amount of chromium and carbon as carbides.
D-2 contains 1.5% carbon and 11.0–13.0% chromium; additionally it is composed of 0.45% manganese, 0.030% max phosphorus, 0.030% max sulfur, 1.0% vanadium, 0.7% molybdenum, and 0.30% silicon. D2 is very wear resistant but not as tough as lower alloyed steels. Mechanical properties of D-2 is very sensitive to heat treatment. It is widely used for shear blades, planer blades and industrial cutting tools, sometimes used for knives.
 

Ken Kimbrell

New User
Ken
If properly heat treated it...
Thanks Mike.
Are you saying that it would need to be heat treated after shaping it into a scraper profile? I've only tried doing a heat treat once in recent years (on some A1) and the result was less than satisfactory.
 

Mike Davis

Mike
Corporate Member
Most suppliers sell annealed steel, it would need to be heat treated, from what I read D2 is tricky to heat treat.

You may be better off with O2 or Common carbon steel that is much easier to treat or find a machine shop that will send it off with their regular shipment to a specialized heat treat company.
 

Ken Kimbrell

New User
Ken
Thanks for that info Mike, it would have been a big disappointment if I had bought the steel only to find out that it needed the heat treatment. It looks like some more study is in order for me. :cool:
 

Mark Gottesman

New User
Mark
Most any steel suitable for a scraper will need to be hardened. Also, I don't know what Rockwell hardness would be best for a scraper. D2 is a die steel and is very abrasion resistant. Does not dull easily, but conversely is a bit harder to sharpen.

Depending on your scraper needs you could make one from an old handsaw blade. You can cut it out with an abrasive saw and grind/sand to final shape. If you keep it cool while shaping you won't have to heat treat it. It will be ready to go.

Rereading your post, are you looking to make a scraper for use on a lathe? I am not sure what to tell you there. I do know that you will want a steel that will not easily soften due to the heat generated when being used. Sometimes these steels are called red hard. If you want I can look through my tool steel catalogs.

Professional heat treating is the way to go to get a good result.
 

Ken Kimbrell

New User
Ken
Thanks Mark, yes, lathe work is what it's needed for. I'm researching the heat treating angle now, hopefully Mike's suggestion about machine shops will help... just need to find one near or in Winston Salem if possible.
 

Mike Davis

Mike
Corporate Member
I don't think wood turning will generate the kind of heat you need to worry about. D2 starts to soften around 700°F, it would take metal turning to get that hot.
 

Ken Kimbrell

New User
Ken
That's good to hear Mike, because the price is right on the D2.
From what I'm reading so far in my online research it sounds as though the biggest concern will be when grinding the profile for the scraper end of the tool because the tang end would be far enough away from that end so as to not be a concern.

I'm guessing that using a 3" angle grinder would work OK to shape the cutting profile, but a cutting torch would make too much heat???
 

Ben325e

New User
Ben
I would personally go the carbide cutter route, but comparing D2 to regular HSS isn't exactly apples to apples. I have a pocket knife made out of CPM-D2 and love it - it gets very sharp and holds the edge for a looong time. While D2 isn't quite as good as CPM-D2, the difference is moot for lathe tools. D2 is said to take a crappy edge and hold it forever. HSS isn't as abrasion resistant in my experiences.

That said, I wouldn't want to use it unless D2 has been properly heat treated. I'd rather grind it on a ceramic belt or grinding wheel in the heat-treated form so that I don't have to worry about getting it heat treated. If you don't have heat treating equipment accessible and a proper heat treat schedule, I would look for something much easier for the home-metalworker to heat treat. O1 would be my choice.

That said, bar stock steel + file + drill and tap = easily made carbide scraping tool, and a four sided carbide cutter will last you quite a while before needing replacement.

The most recent DIY carbide scraper I remember was a nice one posted by Scott Smith a month or two ago here on the site.
 

Ken Kimbrell

New User
Ken
Salem, I would love to buy a nice large bowl scraper like this one from Doug Thompson, but at 90-100 bucks a pop I just can not afford to do that because one tool would put a very serious dent in my tool funds.

The piece of D2 I'm looking at will yield enough so that my cost will be about $12-15 per tool and I'll be able to get 6-7 tools out of that one bar... that is a little more budget friendly for me, being retired and on the 'fixed income' thing.

As for the carbide cutters, that's a good idea and I've already been checking into that and it seems to work well for some operations. A local salvage yard had some diamond shaped cutters and I picked up a box with 10 cutters pretty cheap. The diamond shape works good for some cuts, but I'm still trying to find a source for rounds and squares. Most of the woodworking stores and online retailers want close to $20 or more for one cutter so I'm taking my time trying to find a better deal.
 

aplpickr

New User
Bill
Re: Try M-2 instead

Try Wholesale Tools, a NC company, for pre-hardened M-2 tool steel. For small scrapers these will provide lots of fun. It takes heat in the range of 2500° to effect the temper. You can heat it cherry red and even bend it with a torch without changing its hardness. 1/4" x 6" makes good scratch awls too. Cut with a grinder, not a hacksaw.

http://tool.wttool.com/search?p=KK&...t=score&view=grid&w=High Speed Tool Bits&rk=2

Bill in WNC mountains
 
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Ken Kimbrell

New User
Ken
Thanks Ben and Bill.

That link helps Bill, I've been wanting to find a source for drill blanks and Wholesale Tool seems to be a good one for those as well as the carbide inserts that are on my list of things to find at a good price.
Got it book marked. :icon_thum

Ben, that Scott Smith topic has lots of good info for finding parts and building the tool... thanks, got that one bookmarked as well. :cool:
 

Gunslinger

New User
Mike
Here is another place for steel. http://www.speedymetals.com/ I have ordered from them quite a few times. Some steel types are by a minimum length (like 36”) and many others are by the inch.
1+ for Wholesale Tools also. They also carry HSS in there bits section as well as some 5% cobalt. Bit length is typicall 8” or < but I find that fine for almost any lathe tool.
You may also want to check out Cap’n Eddie http://www.speedymetals.com/
Has some pretty decent prices such as the ½” bar, two cutter, and 3 screws for $20.
He also has a lot of video’s on youtube.

The cutters from Cap’n are for wood where the cutters from WWT are made for metal (only about a 7* grind). I did order two cutters from WWT ($2.20 each) C6 carbide brazed onto ½” holder. When I regrind and try them I will let you know how they work for me.
 

eyekode

New User
Salem
Ken, I don't think that is a fair comparison. Your 15$ D2 will not match up to Doug Thompson's CPM 10V :). I still stick to my recommendation: If you want a bowl scraper try the pennstate for 30. Or better yet the carbide insert based tools sound great to me. I don't have any yet, but maybe soon :).
Salem
 
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