Wood and humidity

[Keye]

Someone please explain what has happened to my drawers, not the ones I wear:rotflm:. I thought I understood how humidity affects wood, must not.

I had some unfinished drawers, cherry fronts and sides, which I had completed final fine sanding on. I custom fit each drawer and I admit I like for my drawers to be a little tighter than most. I like the feel of that little push of air pressure just before the drawer is completely in.

These drawers sat for a week while I enjoyed having the stomach bug that is going around. The heat and humidity both went up. I kind of expected to do a little sanding for the vertical deminsion. I did not expect to do any for the horizontal deminsion. The drawers would not even fit, not one of them, in the openings. I ended up breaking out the belt sander to sand the sides of the drawers.

Does anyone understand why I had to sand both the tops and the sides. If the drawers had been in place could never have gotten them out.

Oh, I do not normally waste cherry for secondary wood, drawer sides. I bought this wood from a guy on one of the other sites and it is hardly good enough to use as secondary wood.

 

[Joe Scharle]

I had some unfinished drawers, cherry fronts and sides

What did you use on the backs? Just wondering if the backs got larger and pulled the whole thing oversized.

BTW do you use the IDIOT system with your drawers? It forces swelling to the center of the drawers.

 

[Keye]

I used ash as the secondary wood. Do not think this would be a problem as I cut the top back at an angle just to add a little personal detail and to make the drawer easier to install.

 

[jeff...]

I can try to explain Wood will acclimate it's self to the environment it's in. If the wood were extra dry, say less than 8% moisture content it will pick up moisture especially in weather like we had last week. It picks up most of it's moisture through end grain but will pick up moisture through it's faces and edge grain. Think of it as a big sponge. As it picks up moisture, it swells, hence the reason you had to remove some wood to get the drawers to fit.

Here's a real life hint... Cut a piece of fresh flat sawn oak, 1 1/8" x 6" wide. Take it to Scott to be kiln dried it comes out of the kiln measuring 1" thick by 5 3/4" wide. Take the same measurement of quarter sawn white oak and it comes out measuring 1 1/16" thick by 5 7/8" wide. The short and curly is quarter sawn is a far more stable piece of lumber than flat sawn - this is pretty universal even with cherry.

I guess what I'm saying is... avoid flat sawn lumber if you can. When it comes to close fitting moving parts like drawers, Flat sawn is less stable than quarter sawn and has a tendency to move a lot more.

Thanks

 

[Keye]

"BTW do you use the IDIOT system with your drawers? It forces swelling to the center of the drawers."


OK, I will bite. What is the IDIOT system? Other than the way I usually do things the first time.:rotflm:

Thanks Jeff!! BTY I always enjoy and learn from your posts. Did on this one also.

I have never even seen quarter sawn cherry for sale. I also admit to buying cheap. I am still looking forward to the day when I am confident enough to buy the high price stuff. I always buy about twice as much as I think I will need just to cover my mistakes.:eusa_danc:eusa_danc:eusa_danc

 

[jeff...]

Yeah only us that are nutso will QS cherry and sell it below flat sawn prices.

 

[Joe Scharle]

OK, I will bite. What is the IDIOT system? Other than the way I usually do things the first time.:rotflm:

Let's wait for some of the original subscribers to answer this. I'm sure they'll remember. It has nothing to do with an individual but an acronym for a process.

:gar-La;

 

[Travis Porter]

OK, I will bite. What is the IDIOT system? Other than the way I usually do things the first time.:rotflm:

Let's wait for some of the original subscribers to answer this. I'm sure they'll remember. It has nothing to do with an individual but an acronym for a process.

:gar-La;

I'm stumped. I don't remember the IDIOT system.

Halfblind, what did you use for drawer bottoms?

 

[Travis Porter]

I'm stumped. I don't remember the IDIOT system.

Halfblind, what did you use for drawer bottoms?

I searched, and I remember that thread now. That was way way back before I became active on the site.

 

[cpowell]

"BTW do you use the IDIOT system with your drawers? It forces swelling to the center of the drawers."


OK, I will bite. What is the IDIOT system? Other than the way I usually do things the first time.:rotflm:

Thanks Jeff!! BTY I always enjoy and learn from your posts. Did on this one also.

I have never even seen quarter sawn cherry for sale. I also admit to buying cheap. I am still looking forward to the day when I am confident enough to buy the high price stuff. I always buy about twice as much as I think I will need just to cover my mistakes.:eusa_danc:eusa_danc:eusa_danc

Joe posted this a while back....

Well that was fun......It stands for:

(I)nside of (D)rawer (I)s (O)utside of (T)ree !

Any cupping that might occur will be restrained by the 4 corners and not stick to your face frame.

Joe

I get the concept but will admit I don't always use it.


Chuck

 

[Joe Scharle]

OK, according to an old cabinet maker of the British school; IDIOT stands for:
Inside (of) Drawer Is (the) Outside (of the) Tree

He taught me that in the '50s and I've never had a problem. Wood movement is directed to the weak (outside rings) or towards the inside of the drawer.
Here's a pic of what I'm saying:

Good luck,
Joe

 

[Keye]

IDIOT system for drawers, I wonder in reality how often this is used. Obviously it is a good idea.

I have changed to using plywood for drawer bottoms, two reasons, time and money. Before I would make a raised panel for the bottom. Guess which way the raised panel faced:eusa_danc.

Jeff you are certainly correct. I don't think anyone in the wood business is nuts enough to sale QS cherry for flat saw prices. I still have never seen QS cherry for sale. Other than stability what does it buy you. If it really gives you a great look I would like to use some for small table tops. Is it a special order only type of thing.

 

[jeff...]

The way quarter sawn cells are aligned in the board they will cause the quarter sawn board to shrink less in width and very little in thickness. Quarter sawn boards are also much less prone to warping.

flat sawn boards have grain in multiple directions, this will cause un-even drying and in turn cause the board to warp (cup, twist, and bow). The shrinkage rate is also much more pronounced in plain sawn boards. Due to the grain's orientation in the board, the board will shrink quite a bit more in thickness as well as width.

If you are buying kin dried lumber then the boards have done the majority of their movement in the kiln. All you should have to be concerned with is what they will due when they absorb moisture from their environment and swell. Just remember generally speaking, quarter sawn lumber will swell and shrink less in less in width, and flat sawn lumber will swell and shrink more in width and thickness. flat sawn may even warp if exposed to high environmental humidity.

Besides the stability, and ascetics (ray flake), and straight grain lines, another great feature of quarter sawn lumber is if you have to glue up boards for a larger sized panel the grain is easily matched to look seamless.

 

[garymuto]

OK, according to an old cabinet maker of the British school; IDIOT stands for:
Inside (of) Drawer Is (the) Outside (of the) Tree

He taught me that in the '50s and I've never had a problem. Wood movement is directed to the weak (outside rings) or towards the inside of the drawer.
Here's a pic of what I'm saying:

Good luck,
Joe

I like it. Great lesson