Policy, Off topic forum and frustrated users and staff

[Dutchman]

I have enjoyed this site for a long time. I don't post a lot, but I do read a lot of the posts and enjoy looking at the projects and such. Having been around furniture production my entire working career, I have had a front row seat for the "made in china". With the state of things, it's a natural, normal reaction to post your views on the economy, politics,...
That said, I too aplaud the moderators for doing their best to keep things civil and woodworking related. Steve has set the guidelines, and we should respect that. One of the most important things about this board in my opinion is the advice and encouragement we give to new woodworkers. The open and friendly atmosphere here gives the "newbe's" a welcoming place to learn.
Lastly, I hope those that felt overmoderaded, and need to take a break will not let thier pride keep them away. Take a break if you need it, but come on back when your ready.

 

[woodArtz]

Ten days ago, I was asked to join the ranks of the moderators. I was overjoyed that I would have a chance to give back to the forum. I had no lofty aspirations in mind as I knew it could be a tough job with low pay :nah:. Who knew that in ten short days, I would be a part of a group that has been described derisively as "beautiful people", "heavy handed", etc. Wow, from the euphoria of being able to serve the group to the grief of being labeled as one of "them". I'm proud to be a part of this forum and a part of the moderator team... doesn't make me a part of some exclusive club... just someone who wanted to help.

A year or so ago, this forum was an amazing discovery for me. Not only did it have the expert opinions I was looking for, but it had something else... a human side. Neighbors sharing a common addiction to wood/tools and a unique friendship. I was here when folks cried over the loss of each others loved ones and beloved pets... when folks sifted through the remains of our friend's shop after a tragic fire... when others celebrated achievements or welcomed newborns. I may be singing kumbaya here, but I can't help it. I truly dig this place and all the folks I've met here.

As to the issue at hand, I see it as a simple thing. We all started this game knowing the rules. If not, we were soon reminded of them (from someone who has been moderated before :wink_smil ). To suggest that the group of your friends called moderators is somehow targeting folks just for the he...ck of it, is hard to swallow. I know most of these folks personally. Seriously, no one would suggest such a thing. So since that just can't be the case, it must be a case of some misunderstandings. As the day in question progressed, it certainly seemed like some folks were testing the limits of the policy and daring the moderators to act. As I watched in horror and worried about where it was going, I could tell tensions were building. That's when Steve jumped in... whew!

So, where do we go from here? I am truly saddened when I see the upset turn to name calling, especially from people I consider to be friends. I worry, probably more than I should, about people indicating they're leaving. It can't be that bad! In a few days after things have cooled... it won't be that bad. As Steve indicated, there will be some policy clarifications that will prevent these misunderstandings in the future. So, let's hang in there guys, and all remember we do have a great thing here and the sun will rise tomorrow!

Wow.. I'm a long winded so-n-so. Sorry. Also please know, I had no mean spirited intentions in the writing of this. If you see something that could be taken that way....please let me know.

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

Well frankly I'm "baffled" over the whole issue. Just drop the OT forum all together. If it isn't "woodworking related" put it on another web forum.

Or . . . . leave OT, don't moderate it at all, let the flames burn. What or who does it hurt? But don't put it on the home page in "Recent Threads." If people are interested, they will go there, if not it doesn't exist to them. The only reason I ever read OT posts, other than my own, is because I see them in "Recent Threads." I never go there otherwise. Another thought is limit OT thread length or build in a self destruct after some minimal time. Gives people a place to vent if they want to, knowing it will be gone soon. Are there any OTs that are useful to keep in the archives anyway? Probably not.

As to being moderated in a WW related forum, that is a different issue, which I am still "baffled" over, especially cases where a member is moderated and a non-member (or an "invited" new, non-NC member) is not, because someone(?) thinks he has a good idea (no matter how erroneous).

 

[steviegwood]

Hi Y'all, I am relatively new to this forum and do not want to step out of bounds and loose my membership. I have come to this forum by invite of members that I have come to admire their works and their overall good guy/gal nature. That being said; I also admire the moderation teams on any and all forums such as this because they have a tough job keeping things from going down the wrong path. It all to often comes down to this. The written word sometimes comes across in a different way than if it was the spoken word face to face. You do not have the body language and the eye contact or tone of voice to go along with it. We have all had days where if someone says something to us we just jump right down their throat for what they say, but on any other given day the same thing gets said and it is funny and you have a good laugh over it. We all including myself need to think of what we put down as the written word will come across to others. I may say something to someone as the written word (and myself and that someone know each other) so between us it may be a good joke but to others and to new comers it may be offensive. It is hard to think of what we write in this manner but when we do there is much less chance of conflict. Steve

 

[TexasTimbers]

I'm a mod on another WWing forum and I can tell all you non-mods that being a moderator is easy. No sweat. Nothing to it.

It's the moderating part that stinks. :gar-Bi

When they have to actually make a decision to do something about a thread, or member, or send someone a PM asking to tone it down so they don't have to can a thread, that's when someone is going to be unhappy somewhere somehow.

Take it easy on them, they don't do it because it's fun. It usually isn't. :argue: :eusa_naug :crossedlips: :eusa_pray :eusa_booh

 

[MikeL]

One of the most important things about this board in my opinion is the advice and encouragement we give to new woodworkers. The open and friendly atmosphere here gives the "newbe's" a welcoming place to learn.

He hit the nail on the head with the above statement. I think that this is one of the biggest services that the NCWW site provides. It seems that everyone genuinely cares about welcoming newbies and contributing positively to his/her adventure in the world of woodworking. This is exactly why I was hooked from the beginning and began to mention this site to whomever I came across that shared the same interest in wood.

I cannot recall a time that I have been moderated, but I did have an issue with one of my ads in the classified section of old. I wasn't happy with the way it was handled, but I got over it. I guess in the end the people of this site brought something into my daily routine that just was not worth giving up for my petty disagreement.

I honestly do not visit this site daily for the best advice on woodworking. Usually if I have a question in the shop I will turn to my books for the answer. What I do take away from my visits online is the ability to chat with friends, some motivation to get off of my butt and make something, inspiration to try new things, and everyone once in a while a really good deal (with CFO approvals of course). I am usually not one to blow sunshine, but life is way too short and I hope that all of our members can do a proverbial control-alt-delete and start over fresh. I would hate to see any of you guys leave the community.

Now, who wants to sell me their collection of Lie-Nielsen planes at 1/3 the going price? :gar-Bi

 

[DavidF]

Wow! I go away for a few days and NCWW self destructs!!

While I agree with some of the comments above, I don't see much mention about the people who are doing the complaining to the Moderators and therefore getting stuff moderated. I was offered the job of Moderator in the early days and I turned it down because quite frankly I couldn't see anything wrong in most of the "examples" I was given of things that upset people. Why is this? it's because I choose NOT to be offended by things. I might take very short term offence, but then I move on quickly. I don't get offended by religious topics because I don't understand religion anyway! Politics, fine it affects us all, and we have our opinions. I get more offended by pictures of hunting trophies and guns etc, but wouldn't dream of complaining to a moderator about them, I just move on and never look back. If I stopped and stared and thought about those pictures I COULD get upset enough to complain so I don't, simple as that. The moderators are there because people complain to them, if we don't complain, we don't get moderated..

If I was to get offended too many times on the site I would have to weigh up the benefits versus the offence, like I have on other sites, those I just do not go back to and I am sure I am not missed:gar-La; This site is worth it's weight in gold! I use the OT forum for asking non woodworking related questions because I have been doing woodwork for a long time and don't have too many questions to ask, but I am no gardener or plumber or electrician and many of the members are. I would hate to the see the OT forum go, and would also hate to see a "Basement" If you feel like saying something explosive - DON'T

 

[SteveColes]

I suspect that this thread has reached a point of diminishing returns:swoon: So I am closing it with this last post to just summarize what I am taking from it and what the next steps will be.

Some of you vehemently disagree with the topic restrictions that have applied since this site was first started.

These restrictions have served these forums well for almost 4 years. I suspect they will stay in place with some clarifications. I think in general we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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Some of you feel that moderation is heavy handed:argue:, or there are a favored few:slap:, or that we have started to moderate differently:icon_scra, or that there are power mad individuals behind the scenes.:tongue2: etc.

First and foremost, please remember that I am the father and author the existing moderation procedures. If there is fault, it is mine.
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Well, this is one of those areas where, the truth may not matter, only the perception of the truth. So we as a staff need to make some changes in procedure and other things. I suspect that we will need to formalize the procedure of how we moderate and make sure all users can see what our process is. In addition, I suspect we will have a formal complaint and review process, so those that feel that something is wrong in the way they were moderated can be sure the action has been reviewed.
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Some of you disagree with my decision to temporarily close the off topic forum.

I have no answer to that, except to say that I still feel that was the correct thing to do. Also, I don't intend to reopen until all the policy clarification statements are done and the moderation procedures are written.

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Please, please leave these topics alone for now. Let us all cool down

Thanks