Festool Domino Joining System
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You just need it because it is Festool. Okay, maybe not.
Festool is known more recently for excellent quality tools. Still loaded with plastic, but well designed and constructed better than most.
As for the Domino ... IMHO, over-priced but highly desirable. Overpriced because that's the Festool catch ... quality comes at a price. High Desirable because of what it does ... much more strength than a biscuit, and easier to align than a pair of dowels (of course, Fein, I think, just released a tool much like the Domino that does dowels). The Domino also gets a high price tag because it is innovative. Maybe not as creative as the light bulb once was, but innovative none the less. For this, they have to recoup R&D and profit from thinking outside the box.
The catch with Festool (though they are not alone) is you kinda need their who setup to get all of the benefits ... dust collection, the table, and the accessories for the Domino. No suprise there though ...
So ... get one. And hopefully you won't like it so I can buy it cheap! haha
Festool is known more recently for excellent quality tools. Still loaded with plastic, but well designed and constructed better than most.
As for the Domino ... IMHO, over-priced but highly desirable. Overpriced because that's the Festool catch ... quality comes at a price. High Desirable because of what it does ... much more strength than a biscuit, and easier to align than a pair of dowels (of course, Fein, I think, just released a tool much like the Domino that does dowels). The Domino also gets a high price tag because it is innovative. Maybe not as creative as the light bulb once was, but innovative none the less. For this, they have to recoup R&D and profit from thinking outside the box.
The catch with Festool (though they are not alone) is you kinda need their who setup to get all of the benefits ... dust collection, the table, and the accessories for the Domino. No suprise there though ...
So ... get one. And hopefully you won't like it so I can buy it cheap! haha
Kevin,
Next time you're coming to Concord let me know. I can show you how I use mine and let you make me some panels or drawer boxes. Using tools from Festool is a much better way to make a value judgement vs seeing them in catalogs or pretty weak demos in local stores.
Yes, in my experience and opinion it is more flexible, quicker, more precise, cleaner and just plain cooler 'n he^* (to quote Ray Wiley Hubbard) compared to other ways of making loose tenon joints and other joining methods. It's just not cheaper. It is cheaper here vs other countries though.
Tools from Festool and other highend manufacturers (think Lie Neilson, Bridge City Tools, Felder, etc) are hard to justify by price alone if you don't use them every day but bring joy, satisfaction and amazement everytime I use them. That's hard to put a price on.
Mark
Next time you're coming to Concord let me know. I can show you how I use mine and let you make me some panels or drawer boxes. Using tools from Festool is a much better way to make a value judgement vs seeing them in catalogs or pretty weak demos in local stores.
Yes, in my experience and opinion it is more flexible, quicker, more precise, cleaner and just plain cooler 'n he^* (to quote Ray Wiley Hubbard) compared to other ways of making loose tenon joints and other joining methods. It's just not cheaper. It is cheaper here vs other countries though.
Tools from Festool and other highend manufacturers (think Lie Neilson, Bridge City Tools, Felder, etc) are hard to justify by price alone if you don't use them every day but bring joy, satisfaction and amazement everytime I use them. That's hard to put a price on.
Mark
Jeremy,
I watched some of the stuff online about the tool and think that it is a great joining system. I like it much better than alot of the ones out there. I guess I just got sticker shock considering I assumed you would need thier whole system to make it a complete unit. I am sure you could get along with just it but what fun is that. I just didn't know if it was that much more superior to using biscuits. I am sure that if I get heavy into building I will end up with one.
Mark,
I will take you up on that sometime, not only to play with a cool tool but to meet and get to know other people from here. I am not to far from you. I live in Davidson but work over behind the speedway. I think that is alot of my problem with spending that kind of money on a tool like that. At this point and for the forseeable future I don't see using it on a regular basis hopefully that will change. Although if it makes life that much easier then I am not opposed to spending a little extra to keep my sanity.
Althought I still want to learn to make mortise and tenons I just think something like this would provide a cleaner/easier/quicker joint.
I watched some of the stuff online about the tool and think that it is a great joining system. I like it much better than alot of the ones out there. I guess I just got sticker shock considering I assumed you would need thier whole system to make it a complete unit. I am sure you could get along with just it but what fun is that. I just didn't know if it was that much more superior to using biscuits. I am sure that if I get heavy into building I will end up with one.
Mark,
I will take you up on that sometime, not only to play with a cool tool but to meet and get to know other people from here. I am not to far from you. I live in Davidson but work over behind the speedway. I think that is alot of my problem with spending that kind of money on a tool like that. At this point and for the forseeable future I don't see using it on a regular basis hopefully that will change. Although if it makes life that much easier then I am not opposed to spending a little extra to keep my sanity.
Althought I still want to learn to make mortise and tenons I just think something like this would provide a cleaner/easier/quicker joint.
It is Festool, that makes it expensive. It is a VERY nice joining system and Festool quality is second to none. It blows away biscuits (which I use) and dowels. Biscuits in accuracy and strength and dowels in speed, ease of use and strength.
I kind of feel the same way but I enjoy woodworking more now that I have moved up to the lower level professional tools (PC, Milwaukee, Hitachi (maybe not quite as nice), etc.). If the Festool is another step up as users indicate, it must be a nice tool.
For lose tenons, I just use a plunge router with a spiral up-cut bit and a jig. I do not love screaming routers but it works fine. It takes a few minutes to make the jig, however. Usually I use my dedicated mortiser and cut tenons the conventional way. I did end up buying a shoulder plane to get better fits consistently but all my mortising/tenoning "stuff" did not cost what this tool costs. A significant advantage of loose tenons is you just make square cuts on the pieces - it's a lot easier for me than cutting tenons well. Still not that bad, however.
Jim
For lose tenons, I just use a plunge router with a spiral up-cut bit and a jig. I do not love screaming routers but it works fine. It takes a few minutes to make the jig, however. Usually I use my dedicated mortiser and cut tenons the conventional way. I did end up buying a shoulder plane to get better fits consistently but all my mortising/tenoning "stuff" did not cost what this tool costs. A significant advantage of loose tenons is you just make square cuts on the pieces - it's a lot easier for me than cutting tenons well. Still not that bad, however.
Jim
I am sure once I actually get into doing some of these projects I will wish I had the Festool and if I can make a go at this stuff then I know I will be buying some of the more professional tools. There is value in them for sure. Effeciency is key for me, well it will be eventually...
I've done M&T joinery using a drill press/ chisel and router/ jig/ chisel. It works fine. Cut the tenons on the table saw. No problems. It just takes time. Lots of time. If you're a professional cabinet maker, time is money. Depending on your hourly rate, you can recoup the money for a Domino in 1, 2 or 3 projects. It's that quick.
If this is a hobby, then no, you don't need it. But you may want it
Oh, and it's more than $750. You need the shop vac to go with it, as well as the combo kit that has the various bits, accessories and domino's. It's closer to $1500...but it's one heck of a tool :tool:
If this is a hobby, then no, you don't need it. But you may want it
Oh, and it's more than $750. You need the shop vac to go with it, as well as the combo kit that has the various bits, accessories and domino's. It's closer to $1500...but it's one heck of a tool :tool:
Buy it, and you will not be dissappointed. It is expensive, but what's your time worth. The vacuum is a gimmick, why worry about HEPA filtration when its impossible to catch all the dust from the other 15+ tools in the shop. With the right adaptor a standard vacuum will work. You will need suction for the tool to operate correctly. You will be hard pressed to find anyone that owns any Festool product complaining. Faster Easier Smarter Tool for sure!
I have one complaint about Festool. Price.
Otherwise, ZILCH, ZERO. I would have never believed a sander could be so much smoother and easier to operate.
Otherwise, ZILCH, ZERO. I would have never believed a sander could be so much smoother and easier to operate.
Crap now I am going to have to go actual look at the FESTool stuff tomorrow. I am going to the WC in Matthews tomorrow. I have to be good. I have to think broke.
You will be broke once you start buying Festool.:wink_smil
I don't have a domino but the length and thickness is greater than that of a biscuit, but to your point, it could be a ferrari faster than a corvertte. Maybe a Lamborghini as I saw one of those a week or so ago.
M
McRabbet
I had an opportunity to use a Domino for joinery in a set of eight glass doors I made for a project about a year ago, shortly after the tool was introduced. The unit I used belonged to Peter Slampe (pslampe32 here) and he was most generous in letting me use it. The doors I made had four panes each, separated by conventional mullions. But I realized that conventional cope and stick joints would not provide adequate strength at the rail/stile joints. So I combined both methods: a mortise for an 8 x 40 mm Domino loose tenon was added to each joint before the cope and stick cuts were made and the tenons added -- here's a picture:
I made these eight doors in about 10 hours, including milling the stock, making the mullions, cutting the mortises, gluing them up and adding the glass. Reluctantly, I had to return Peter's Domino, but if I could afford one, I'd have it in a heartbeat. It is a great tool!
And to answer Mark's question about strength, the size of the loose tenon versus a standard biscuit shows there is no comparison.
I made these eight doors in about 10 hours, including milling the stock, making the mullions, cutting the mortises, gluing them up and adding the glass. Reluctantly, I had to return Peter's Domino, but if I could afford one, I'd have it in a heartbeat. It is a great tool!
And to answer Mark's question about strength, the size of the loose tenon versus a standard biscuit shows there is no comparison.
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Rob - what size are those doors ? My eyesight isn't good enough to read the tape measure. And what kind of glass did you use - single-strength (3/32") ?
My gut instinct looking at those doors is that they are about the size of kitchen cabinet doors (?) and probably *lighter* than traditional solid wood doors. For which traditional cope-and-stick cutters work fine. What made you think you needed reinforcement ?
On the issue of "no comparison" - have you been experiencing failures with biscuits ?
I keep asking that question because how much strength is enough ? I guess if we all had Dominos, it would be a non-issue and we could stop using pocket screws, dowels, biscuits, etc - and all those other things that have traditionally worked pretty well in the right application(s).
Can you loan me $1K ? :gar-Bi
-Mark
Rob's project was an outdoor project where it probably wouldn't be well taken care of, ie abused. Still, in cope and stick doors you are not going to be able to put a biscuit in for reinforcement.
Where a domino stands out to me would be in building say a table and using the dominoes instead of mortise and tenon joinery in the aprons, not a place I have used biscuits.. Still, to your point, I have never had a biscuit failure.
When is enough enough? I don't know. I came within a hair of buying a used domino last week and backed down (bought too much else already).
Where a domino stands out to me would be in building say a table and using the dominoes instead of mortise and tenon joinery in the aprons, not a place I have used biscuits.. Still, to your point, I have never had a biscuit failure.
When is enough enough? I don't know. I came within a hair of buying a used domino last week and backed down (bought too much else already).
I only have one Festool tool, and it is the Domino. It's a great tool and has made mortise and tenon joinery simple for this beginner. Biscuits are fine, but they can not do everything a domino does, which is pretty much everything a mortise and tenon can do. This includes through tenons (you can buy dominos with different woods for different effects). I wouldn't feel comfortable using biscuits on a table, but like I said I'm a beginner and suffer from that disease of over building things. I haven't made a chair with Dominos yet, but I will attempt it someday .
I am currently attaching large wooden hooks to a post for a hall tree with dominos. There is a good chance my kids will get a hold and pull on them, which is fine. I wouldn't feel so confident with a biscuit (would have to be very small biscuits since the hooks are not very wide at the base).
Also, I do not have a Festool vacuum. I use my Ridgid vacuum with a HEPA filter and a mini cyclone. It works great, although the connection is a little more cludgy than the native Festool one. Mostly I think the Festool stuff is priced too high and not really worth it. I am very glad I have a Domino, it is a real luxury... whether it's worth it depends on the person I guess.
.I am currently attaching large wooden hooks to a post for a hall tree with dominos. There is a good chance my kids will get a hold and pull on them, which is fine. I wouldn't feel so confident with a biscuit (would have to be very small biscuits since the hooks are not very wide at the base).
Also, I do not have a Festool vacuum. I use my Ridgid vacuum with a HEPA filter and a mini cyclone. It works great, although the connection is a little more cludgy than the native Festool one. Mostly I think the Festool stuff is priced too high and not really worth it. I am very glad I have a Domino, it is a real luxury... whether it's worth it depends on the person I guess.
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