Dust Collector Systems

[stal023]

I am just starting my research on setting up a central dust collector system in a small 1-man shop. I can't really afford over 1K for a cyclone system and it sounds like the single stage is not all that wonderful, but seems to hit my budget. I just looked into the newer Jet systems that use this Vortex Clone which they are claiming to be far better than regular single-stage collectors. Even with those, they come in bag (5-micron) and a canister system (2-micron); these can get pricey ($700 on amazon)

Any suggestions? Advise?

 

[Hmerkle]

Stal,
This is quite a distance from you - but seems to be a REALLY good deal...

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/showthread.php?t=53562

 

[Bill Clemmons]

Stal,
This is quite a distance from you - but seems to be a REALLY good deal...

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/showthread.php?t=53562

The system referenced in this post would be well worth the drive at that price, assuming it's still available.

 

[Hmerkle]

The system referenced in this post would be well worth the drive at that price, assuming it's still available.

Agreed - but not worth (as the attorney stated: "Half of everything") :rotflm:

 

[stal023]

Thanks! I sent the owner a message. I started searching craigslist closer to me. Is this worth it?

http://greenville.craigslist.org/tls/4566445165.html

 

[Hmerkle]

I am not an expert, but the Powermatic looks an awful lot like that one!

Mike Davis recently got one (the powermatic version) and he is VERY happy with it!
Hopefully someone who has the Grizzly will chime in?!

I only have an old 1 HP Delta, but it works well for me - I like it that you Grizzly has the pleated filter.
I forgot to say that I piped 4" PVC drain pipe to Bandsaw, Lathe, Table saw and one open spot to hook up mobile tools. I have gates on each position and only open the one I need - it works - 2 HP would probably work better...

 

[Steve_Honeycutt]

Stal,

I would research the CFM needed for each of your tools or the tools that you plan to get. You will also want to consider whether you will move it from tool to tool or do you want the tools connected all of the time. One you determine the CFM you will need, you can quickly narrow down your choices.

I have read many good reviews of the Harbor Freight 2hp model. New price with a 20% off coupon is about $170 add the hoses and clamps and the total is about $235. It us advertised at 1550 CFM. There are several members here that have this unit and are happy with it.

According to the Grizzly website, the 2hp model new is $414 which includes freight. It is a 220 volt unit and it too is rated at 1550 CFM.

Good luck in your search.

Steve H.

 

[Hmerkle]

Stal,

I would research the CFM needed for each of your tools or the tools that you plan to get. You will also want to consider whether you will move it from tool to tool or do you want the tools connected all of the time. One you determine the CFM you will need, you can quickly narrow down your choices.

I have read many good reviews of the Harbor Freight 2hp model. New price with a 20% off coupon is about $170 add the hoses and clamps and the total is about $235. It us advertised at 1550 CFM. There are several members here that have this unit and are happy with it.

According to the Grizzly website, the 2hp model new is $414 which includes freight. It is a 220 volt unit and it too is rated at 1550 CFM.

Good luck in your search.

Steve H.

And simply to confuse the matter - the HF unit does not have the pleated filter, 30 feet of hose and "Metal blast gate" (I hope that means Gates), but in my simple brain if you can get the Grizzly (if it runs well - no vibration, etc.) for $275-$300 with the hose it is a deal... (unless of course someone here says - "Don't do it, it is a piece of junk..." But I doubt it - Grizzly stuff is usually pretty good...
A couple of reviews - food for thought...
http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/3213

http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/2685

The one note I noticed: "This DC is loud!"

Also, I think almost everyone here would suggest a Thain baffle if you don't choose a cyclone (or perhaps instead of a cyclone?)

 

[redknife]

Stal- to add to above thoughts - I use the Jet you referenced in your first post. I roll between machinery and like the unit. The cyclone seems to be effective in dropping the material down keeping the filter clear. Sometimes I do wish I had a system ducted to each machine when I'm frequently going between machines. I suspect that the Jet unit I have and you mentioned would be underpowered in a stationary situation with longer duct runs and higher static pressure but lots o' factors.

 

[Jeremy Scuteri]

I have the 2HP Harbor Freight Dust Collector. I got it for something like $139 with a coupon. Every once in a while you can get them for really cheap. For that price it is hard to go wrong. I don't think I would pay the full $249 for it. I have been happy with mine. I have it setup as a dedicated dust collector with flexible hose, y-splitters and blast gates. The longest run is probably about 20 feet of flexible hose. Someday I will probably upgrade, but I have many other things that I would like to do first, so it will probably be a while.

As I understand it, a CFM ratings doesn't mean a whole lot without knowing the static pressure. Perhaps someone with more knowledge can chime in here.

 

[stal023]

Here is my concern; I don't want to spend money on something that 'appears" to collect the dust. There is a lot out there saying many of these machines don't actually collect the little dust we can't easily see and that is why the cyclone is superior. Also, I read something about if you accidentally suck up a nail or something and how that can damage a single-stage. While I don't want to over pay, I don't want to pay say $300 and in a few months realize I completely wasted that money and that was money I could have put into a system that is pretty good for my health and will last a while. We all know spending this kind of money on something that we don't actually "use" is never a fun purchase but my lungs are pretty important to me

Also to answer the question, I would rather put in some piping to make it more effective as long as that doesn't jack up my budget to much. I read PVC is NOT the way to go, that you lose way to much power running PVC.

 

[Jeremy Scuteri]

Also to answer the question, I would rather put in some piping to make it more effective as long as that doesn't jack up my budget to much. I read PVC is NOT the way to go, that you lose way to much power running PVC.

I agree that spending money on a dust collector isn't fun. Why is it that PVC causes a loss of suction/power? I certainly understand why the flexible hose is a source of loss since the inside walls aren't smooth. This causes a disturbance in the air flow, which is a loss mechanism. PVC does have smooth inside walls though, so it seems like it should be fine. I have heard some debate over whether PVC can be a problem for static, but nothing about it being a problem with loss of suction. Where did you read this? I would be interested.

 

[Hmerkle]

Here is my concern; I don't want to spend money on something that 'appears" to collect the dust. I read PVC is NOT the way to go, that you lose way to much power running PVC.

Stal - +1 for yours and Jeremy's comments on not spending money on something that "appears to collect dust"

"Dust collector" is kind of a misnomer in my mind - this is a chip or shaving collector. One reason I like the Grizzly is because it has the pleated filter and that is a 1 micron filter. (more of a "Dust" collector than my 1 HP Delta AP400)

But for the fine "dust" as from sanding etc. you will have to invest in a Air filtration unit.
There are lots of Manufacturers - JDS (Columbia, SC) Jet etc.)
http://www.jettools.com/us/en/c/woodworking-air-filtration/40?filter=1

Google Air filtration and there are versions you can make yourself...

 

[stal023]

I agree that spending money on a dust collector isn't fun. Why is it that PVC causes a loss of suction/power? I certainly understand why the flexible hose is a source of loss since the inside walls aren't smooth. This causes a disturbance in the air flow, which is a loss mechanism. PVC does have smooth inside walls though, so it seems like it should be fine. I have heard some debate over whether PVC can be a problem for static, but nothing about it being a problem with loss of suction. Where did you read this? I would be interested.

I am not sure of every place I have read it, but I have read it in multiple articles. One is a 2007 article in woodsmith speaking of PVC pipe.

 

[Hmerkle]

I am not sure of every place I have read it, but I have read it in multiple articles. One is a 2007 article in woodsmith speaking of PVC pipe.

are they talking about flexible PVC pipe (it is convoluted or has ridges in it because of the spiral of wire running through it)

On the other hand PVC sewer pipe is smooth and unless you have 90 degree bends, I think the airflow is quite good!
I will look for that woodsmith article... BRB
Sorry - don't have all of Volume 29 (2007 woodsmith) but here is some good reading - http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/ducting.cfm
Just don't let it delay you in looking at that Grizzly DC - my guess - it will be gone soon, I hope someone with the G0548Z chimes in soon...

 

[merrill77]

Here is my concern; I don't want to spend money on something that 'appears" to collect the dust. There is a lot out there saying many of these machines don't actually collect the little dust we can't easily see and that is why the cyclone is superior.

Well, if you -really- want to get the small particles that are bad for the lungs, you are not going too accomplish that with a sub-$1000 DC. If you're serious about that, you need to read Bill Pentz's site. You'll want a well-designed cyclone with a 5HP motor (there is good reason to believe many cyclones are not designed to achieve that goal). You will need excellent DC setup at each tool and efficient piping. And then you'll need to test your setup with an airborne particulate meter to see if everything is working as designed.

C

 

[stal023]

Well, if you -really- want to get the small particles that are bad for the lungs, you are not going too accomplish that with a sub-$1000 DC. If you're serious about that, you need to read Bill Pentz's site. You'll want a well-designed cyclone with a 5HP motor (there is good reason to believe many cyclones are not designed to achieve that goal). You will need excellent DC setup at each tool and efficient piping. And then you'll need to test your setup with an airborne particulate meter to see if everything is working as designed.

C

And
I can't afford that so I am wondering two things: Should I wait to save more money to be able to do that, or is there something out there that is still pretty #### good by spending less? I only do this as a hobby. If there is something pretty good, what are my best choices?

 

[Charlie]

Are you able to discharge the dust collector exhaust outside? If so, no need to worry about capturing the dust in a bag or using a cyclone.
I have been doing this for 23 years. Do not worry about losing the conditioned air in the shop. That is a big myth.
If you would like to see my systems, come on over for a shop visit.

 

[merrill77]

And
I can't afford that so I am wondering two things: Should I wait to save more money to be able to do that, or is there something out there that is still pretty #### good by spending less? I only do this as a hobby. If there is something pretty good, what are my best choices?

I intended to put in a high-end cyclone, such as a Clear-Vue, and setup a system with really good DC. However, that would (among other things) require me to do a lot of work running ducts, etc. So for the short term, I bought the HF 2hp DC mentioned earlier in this thread. I thought it would get me by until I built the cyclone system. Then I moved the HF into the garage (adjacent to my shop) and have never thought about it again. Now the fine dust that escapes the filter is in the garage, rather than the workshop. Some of that, I'm sure, recirculates back into the shop, but I figure the impact on my health is pretty minimal at that point.

With short runs of flex hose (20ft), the HF DC has no trouble keeping up with my 15" planer. In short, the HF DC is a steal if you can get it with a coupon for $140.

 

[JimD]

I use a Delta AP400 which is a 1hp DC. Actually I hope to use it again soon since I am temporarily without a shop due to a move (contractor at work on the new garage shop as I type this). I had it plumbed up with large plastic drain piping with ducts at each tool. It would not keep up with my 10 5/8 jointer/planner but would keep up with the other tools. Router table was a struggle sometimes too due to distance. With a larger DC, larger pipe might be necessary to minimize pressure drop but 4 inch drain pipe will definitely work. Static was never an issue. I ran the Delta originally with the bags it came with. They were like 40 micron filters so it put fine dust everywhere. Then I switched to felt bags which were much better but still not so great. It currently has a pleated filter that filters down to about 1 micron. That works well. I also have a pre-filter, a home made Thien baffle, which helps.

My last comment is on cyclones. I use a cheap Rigid shop vac with sanders. It has a hepa filter and also a small cyclone on top that dumps into a 5 gallon paint bucket. The whole thing looks goony. But it works GREAT! Essentially no dust back into the shop. Filter hardly ever needs cleaning and shop vac hardly ever needs emptying.

If I was starting over, I would get at least a 1.5hp DC, put a pleated filter on it (if it didn't have one) and run at least a Thien pre-separator. A cyclone would be better. They work. A good shop vac will work for some things and might be a bridge until you get a "real" DC. But even my little Delta will get most of the waste, at least on a good day. Lines plug up, sometimes, however. Especially for a stationary system, 1.5-2hp is appropriate even with gates at each tool.

Make your own gates, by the way. You can make them of plywood scraps and they will work better than the plastic gates. If you can afford the metal ones they might be better. I never tried them. Wooden ones work well and the price is right. An adjustable hole cutter helps a lot so you can make holes the size of the pipe or a pipe union.