Working on the Shop instead of in the shop

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W

WNC_Dave

New User
David
So i know how everyone loves pics, and as i have not uploaded any, I decided to snap a few while i worked on my shop this weekend. Once I am done I will get a big pic of the inside as i will want some input on tool placement.
Here is the outside of the shop


Here is the inside while we were planning the work


and finally after a little while we got one side of the shop done.



Well now its time to go work on the other walls.

Dave
 
Jim Murphy

Jim Murphy

New User
Fern HollowMan
Hmmmm. Allow me to gaze into my crystal ball......


I see a larger electrical panel in your future. Much larger.

Are those 2X6 studs?
 
M

McRabbet

Dave,

That is going to be a superb shop space. Good move to add the studs to make it possible to use good insulation. What do you plan for covering the walls? Drywall? OSB, Slat Wall (if you've got deep pockets)? If you every need some, help, holler and maybe I can come over! I agree with Jim that you may need a bigger power panel, though. Keep the pics coming!
 
W

WNC_Dave

New User
David
Jim
yes I am re framing with 2x6 to match what was there.

Rob
I am not sure about the walls yet. I plan on osb or mdf for the bottom to protest the insulation from impact damage, but above that i have not decided. You can come over when ever you want, help is always welcome and beer is in the fridge if you want to just sit and chat.

Why do you think I need a bigger panel. that one is not half full yet, plus i only have a 100 Amp feed going to the building from the house. Also I only have a table saw and compound miter saw. The rest is done by hand till i get some more tools. I am thinking DC will be next so i can get it installed. then planer and jointer. but that is a ways off.

All recommendations are welcome as this is my first shop.

Thanks
Dave
 
Jim Murphy

Jim Murphy

New User
Fern HollowMan
WNC_Dave said:
Why do you think I need a bigger panel. that one is not half full yet, plus i only have a 100 Amp feed going to the building from the house. Also I only have a table saw and compound miter saw. The rest is done by hand till i get some more tools. I am thinking DC will be next so i can get it installed. then planer and jointer. but that is a ways off.

All recommendations are welcome as this is my first shop.

Thanks
Dave
Click to expand...

Because efficient DCs, planers, jointers, bandsaws, table saws, air compressors, shapers, etc. run on 220V, and a 220 breaker takes up two slots in the panel, and you need to run a dedicated line to each machine (IMHO), as well as 4 115V breakers for the four 20 amp circuits feeding CHEST HIGH receptacles on every other stud, and another for the light circuit.

I've got a 20 slot panel (10x2) with only 100 amp service, and sometimes wonder if I should have gone larger.
 
J

JimmyC

New User
Jimmy
fernhollowman said:
Because efficient DCs, planers, jointers, bandsaws, table saws, air compressors, shapers, etc. run on 220V, and a 220 breaker takes up two slots in the panel, and you need to run a dedicated line to each machine (IMHO), as well as 4 115V breakers for the four 20 amp circuits feeding CHEST HIGH receptacles on every other stud, and another for the light circuit.

I've got a 20 slot panel (10x2) with only 100 amp service, and sometimes wonder if I should have gone larger.
Click to expand...

I agree with you Jim. I've got a 32'x40' pole barn style building that is separated into two rooms and it came with a 200amp 30 slot panel. I've since added a 100amp 20 slot sub panel into the machine room so that I could have dedicated circuits for the machines. You can't have too large of a panel or too many outlets.

Jimmy:)
 
Gotcha6

Gotcha6

Dennis
Staff member
Corporate Member
As an alternate to tearing out the old panel consider a sub panel. Most people seldom have more than 1-2 power tools & a DC on at the same time. You could mount another panel beside the one you have & put all your 120v circuits in it. If you use thinline breakers you could get as many as 12 - 120v circuits off that panel. You'd use up 2 spaces in the old panel.
 
W

WNC_Dave

New User
David
OK now i see, yea i will probably need to upgrade down the road then.

SnoeShoeHare the building is 25x50 but it is sectioned off on the inside for storage so the main secion is probably 25x30.

Dave
 
R

Ray Martin

New User
Ray
Dave,

Good progress on the shop. Actually, ANY progress on building or re-building the shop is a good thing. I think shop improvements, shop cabinets, shop benches, etc. are some of the most satisfying things you can do. I never care whether I'm building on or building in or building what... just so long as I'm building.

Ray
 
scsmith42

scsmith42

New User
Scott Smith
Dave, I strongly second the advice re swapping out your panel, and will go one step further and advise you to do it now instead of later. You'll be dollars and time ahead if you go ahead and upgrade your panel now, versus waiting.

A 16 position, 200A panel should be the bare minimum for a small workshop, and a 24 position is even better. Even if you only run a 100A service to it, changing panels out later is a major hassle and a good thing to avoid.

The addition of subpanels is a possibility, but with the state of your project I'd swap out now.

One problem with a future swap is that some of the wires may be too short to reach breaker locations in a new panel. Although you can splice on to the wires, it is much better if you have a "home run" from the breaker to the recepticle versus a splice.

Just my 2 cents... Oh - before I forget... nice looking shop too!

Scott
 
J

JimmyC

New User
Jimmy
Honestly Dave,

If you do your own wiring and have access to getting 200amps into the shop, I would go with the bigger panel. Everybody will say bigger is better, I don't believe that with everything, but with power it's true. 220v machines should be kept on dedicated lines, so if you have jointer, planer, tablesaw, dust collector, and welding machine that will use up 10 slots immediately. With a shop your size, lighting (inside and out) can use up a few breakers, exterior outlets should be on separate breakers, and then add 4 or 5 110v outlets. There goes another 10 slots. So we are up to 20 slots and that's without pushing hard. Car lifts (storage area) and metal working machines could use up more slots. You can't have too many outlets or slots in your panel.

If you don't do your own wiring it's also advantageous to run the outlets before closing up the walls because it costs a lot less.

Good luck on your decision,

Jimmy:)
 
W

WNC_Dave

New User
David
I unfortunately do not know a lot about electrical wiring. I can wire up the breakers and lights in the shop but I am not sure if i can upgrade the existing run from 100 amp to 200 amp? Is it as easy as changing out the breaker in the main house panel if the wiring will handle it? or is a 200 amp 2 100 amp lines? I can take a pick of the inside of my panel if that will help.

Dave
 
Jim Murphy

Jim Murphy

New User
Fern HollowMan
It's not an issue of upping the service amperage (and NO, you can't just pop a bigger breaker in unless you KNOW that the wiring will handle the load), the issue is simply a larger (physically, not amp-erally) panel with more breaker slots.

You have 100 amps coming in, you'll be hard pressed to use them all up at one time in a hobby environment. It's having the space (not the current) to allow separate breakers for the heavy hardware and splitting up the 115v receptacles into multiple circuits.

'Tween me and Scott we could wire Mars if we had somewhere to stand. And if we wait long enough, Scott will buy something with an extension arm that will reach.
 
meika123

meika123

New User
Dave Snider
WNC_Dave said:
Jim
yes I am re framing with 2x6 to match what was there.

Rob
I am not sure about the walls yet. I plan on osb or mdf for the bottom to protest the insulation from impact damage, but above that i have not decided. You can come over when ever you want, help is always welcome and beer is in the fridge if you want to just sit and chat.

Why do you think I need a bigger panel. that one is not half full yet, plus i only have a 100 Amp feed going to the building from the house. Also I only have a table saw and compound miter saw. The rest is done by hand till i get some more tools. I am thinking DC will be next so i can get it installed. then planer and jointer. but that is a ways off.

All recommendations are welcome as this is my first shop.

Thanks
Dave
Click to expand...

Don't know how much help this will be, but, I insulated my 20' x 20' shop, and covered the walls with 1/4" Luan. Didn't cost THAT much, and it gives me a wooden wall to attach things to. Although somewhat limited.
When I enlarged my shop from 12' x 20' to present, I ran a 2/0-4/0 cable underground to a new dedicated 100 amp panel in the shop. Haven't had a problem at all-so far.
HTH

Dave in NC
 
scsmith42

scsmith42

New User
Scott Smith
Dave, re which one of the two panels to use, if it were me I'd go with the 200A panel ($125.00 at the Apex store).

It's ok to leave your incoming service (breaker in the main panel and wiring) at 100A, as Jim explained it's doubtful that you'll be using more than 100A at the same time.

However, what the 200A panel offers you is more locations for 240VAC breakers, and in the event that you ever need more power all you have to do is replace your incoming feed with a larger one and swap out the breaker in your main box in the house. This is much better than having to fool around with chaging all of the wiring in the box.

In my woodshop, I have 240A breakers for the table saw, the edge sander, the shaper, the compressor, the dust collector and a water heater. That's six slots used up in the box for equipment that is found in a high percentage of woodworking shops.

I also have 240 breakers for the 30HP phase converter,a 3-phase panel, two sub panels, and 30A and 50A recepticals for welders, etc that I don't typically use in the wood shop.

There are actually 4 load centers in my wood shop - one of which is a 3 phase load center. The first one was a 20 space put in when the building was built, and I added the other three due to expansion needs. It would have been much easier if the first panel was a larger one...

You've got a great looking shop project; can't wait to see the final product.

Jim - re the Mars wiring ... <grin>
 
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