Wood screws

[lwhughes149]

I just started a new project I found in Woodsmith, a display cabinet. In this magazine they tell you the size woodscrew to use as you go along. Can we discuss wood screws and why they are the screw of choice in woodworking rather than a drywall screw? I headed to the friendly Ace Hardware to see first hand what the different sizes looked like. I would love to have the measuring tool they have for measuring individual screws. Thanks guys. Lorraine

 

[NCPete]

drywall screws are generally more brittle, and will break when placed in a higher stress situation. Wood screws may also have different shapes depending on the intended use, with various shaped appropriately sized drill bits used to pre-drill holes... IIRC, Mcfeely's has a primer on woodscrews online?

 

[Glennbear]

I recently completed a sheet goods rack and substituted coated deck screws for standard wood screws and it worked fine. I agree that sheetrock screws seem to be brittle due to hardening for penetrating gypsum. My reasoning is that deck screws are designed to hold together dimensional lumber and should be more than adequate for cabinetry etc.:wsmile:

 

[Mike Davis]

If they are going to show you will want to use a high quality wood screw. They just look much nicer, they have a better finish and are more consistent in size and finish. I use real brass screws on my better work and stainless for anything that will be near water or moisture as in the kitchen or bathroom. Steam is killer on regular steel screws, even when galvanized. If they will be plugged or covered then galvanized or plain steel is OK.

 

[lwhughes149]

I have made several pieces of furniture as well as a cabinets for my kitchen and used drywall screws for most everything, maybe a few woodscrews along the way, I guess it is too soon to tell if I am going to have a problem. With that said, I plan to use only woodscrews from here out, why not? I started out with six #8 x 1 1/4", had to go to Ace just to get an idea what to look for, I had that size in my supply but didn't know what was what. I am using flat heads and countersinking them. Where would I find the need to use pan head screws? Thanks for the suggestion on Mcfeely's, I will check it out.

 

[junquecol]

As for the hardware checker in Lowes, I asked the Hillman rep. what one would cost. About $350, plus shipping, so I let that one drop.

 

[lwhughes149]

Bruce, what are the hardware checkers at Lowes?

 

[cptully]

Don't recall exactly where I found the ones I have, but over the years I've collected 2 or 3 bolt/screw sizers. All made of plastic and all costing less than $10. Check local hardware stores (in Raleigh try Burke Brothers or Briggs) not the borgs... I've occasionally wished for a metal version of these sizers but they plastic ones work just fine!

Chris

 

[DaveO]

Can we discuss wood screws and why they are the screw of choice in woodworking rather than a drywall screw?

Well to state the obvious Wood screws are designed for wood and Drywall screws are designed for drywall. The biggest difference is in the coarseness of the threads. For dry wall you need a course deep threads to hold firmly in a very weak material. For wood you need a fine thread because it is a strong material and doesn't need a deep thread penetration. If you use pocket screws you will notice that they come in a fine and course threads. The fine thread is for hardwoods, and the course thread is for soft wood and man-made sheet goods. That's not to say you can't interchange them, I just did because I couldn't find the right screw length in the fine thread that I needed.
Another thing to think about is the un-threaded shaft of wood screws vs. drywall screws. Ideally you only want the threads engaging the mating piece, as that will help to pull the pieces together. IIRC, drywall screws, and decking screws are threaded all the way to the head.

Pan head screws are helpful when mounting hardware and you need a flat bearing surface. I could have used some this evening mounting some casters to a few cabinets I am working on. The holes weren't countersunk for flat head screws and now my screws sit a little proud. Pan head screws would have looked a bit more uniform, probably held better, and offered a little adjustment room. I got it done with what I had on hand. Proving the rules aren't set in stone.
MTCW,
Dave

 

[lwhughes149]

Well stated Dave, yes I do remember the course and fine threaded pocket screws and that they were for hardwood and softwood. I was reading tonight and saw where the shank of the screw is to pull the two pieces together with the threads being used in the bottom half of the application. I never would have considered different types of screws, brass, stainless steel, etc. That I didn't know. Thanks for the help. Once again the members of the site have come through. Now, I will in search for the gage to measure my screws. Better still, keep my woodscrews organized and labeled. Thanks again. Lorraine

 

[Robert Arrowood]

Lorriane I just goggled ( how to size wood screw).It showed me a site for woodmag. to download the chart. If that helps:dontknow:.

 

[Gotcha6]

All the comments above about drywall screws are correct in my experiences. Drywall to wood screws, having a smaller shank and being tempered, will more than occasionally snap of directly below the head if used in wood to wood applications. They are designed to secure a very fragile material (gypsum) to wood or metal by using a screw gun that typically stops turning when it reaches a predetermined depth instead of an axial torque load. Also, if you will notice, metal stud drywall screws have a very fine (sometimes double helix) thread, & some can be purchased with drill points for heavy gauge studs. These lack the holding power of a coarse thread in wood and will readily strip out the material. It's always best to use the fastener designed for the materials.
As for pan head screws, they work best when applying metal or wood to wood where appearance is secondary to holding power.
I often wonder why they still make slotted screws in light of the superior workablity of the other types.

 

[ScottM]

I have made several pieces of furniture as well as a cabinets for my kitchen and used drywall screws for most everything, maybe a few woodscrews along the way, I guess it is too soon to tell if I am going to have a problem. With that said, I plan to use only woodscrews from here out, why not? I started out with six #8 x 1 1/4", had to go to Ace just to get an idea what to look for, I had that size in my supply but didn't know what was what. I am using flat heads and countersinking them. Where would I find the need to use pan head screws? Thanks for the suggestion on Mcfeely's, I will check it out.

Lorriane, I have used pan head screws to install hardware like draw slides and handles. For wood to wood assembly I use the flat head wood screws and countersink them. I also find that square head or phillips head screws are easier to use then slotted.

Next time you go to the new ACE ask for Dennis and tell him I sent you.

 

[Shamrock]

Hey Everybody-

Check out the summer edition of "Woodworking Magazine" (the one with the picture of the curly maple chest and finger joints). It's got a great article in it on exactly what this THREAD (pun intended) is about! Happy reading.


:BangHead::BangHead::BangHead:clamps-clamps-why do I never have enough clamps

 

[lwhughes149]

Scott, the staff in Ace don't know my name but they sure know my face?

 

[Alan in Little Washington]

A few notes about "wood" screws-

If you compare flat-head wood screws to drywall screws- in addition to a section of shank, the underside of the head of a wood screw is a constant taper (typically 82 deg?) while drywall screws have "bugle" head which does not match the typical countersink.

While a straight bit can be used, you should use a tapered drill bit (both straight and tapered pilot hole bit sets that include countersinks and depth stops are available at most WW retailers) to drill pilot holes for wood screws.

I may be wrong, but believe that pocket screws, while similar to drywall screws, are not as tempered and brittle.

Oh, and here is what Wikipedia says.

 

[DavidF]

I am beginning to change over from the traditional tapered wood screw to the modern parallel thread design, often self drilling as well. The beauty of the newer design is that the pilot required for the threaded portion is the same size as the shank. This means that you can drill through both pieces to be screwed together in one pass, ensuring better accuracy. You just have to make sure, as mentioned before that the length of the shank is equal or greater than the thickness of the top piece to be joined. And don't forget the joy of square drive!

 

[NCPete]

yes, being SQUARE is a good thing!

 

[customwood]

To answer the question of what screw to use you must first understand that a screw really is a small clamp and to work properly it must be sized correctly for the application required. The threaded portion only treads into the backing material and the head and shank act as a clamp and pulls the two pieces together. In response to the "old" or traditional wood screws, that is all they had to work with. They were designed for hand tool operation. When the woodworking industry moved to power drivers a new breed of wood screws were developed for industrial or commercial use. These screws were labled "Twin Fast" screws and are still available. These screws were mainly used in the furniture industry to join hardwoods. Twin Fast screws usually have a phillips head, hardened, coated with black oxide, and have a lubricant applied to them. I have used them for over 20 years and you will not have a problem with them breaking. I use 1-1/4" thru 2-1/2" #9 and 3" thru 4" #10. The shorter screws are # 6 and # 8. When I first started using these screws, I had to order by the case. A case of 1-1/4 #9 came 9600 screws to the case. My local hardware store now stocks a similar screw with a torx head, hardened in the larger diameters. This screw drills its own pilot hole, and cuts a counter-sink for the head with power tools. It is available in interior, exterior, and stainless steel. I have only found this screw at Henderson Lumber Co, Tarboro, N.C. Lowes sells a similar screw but it does not work as well. Naturally if a screw is exposed and becomes part of the trim, then this will require the appropriate screw for the application and would be pre-drill and applied with hand tools.

I hope this will help!

P.S. I receive the screw gauges in the mail quite frequently as a free gift from a Woodworking magazine trying to get me to subscribe to their magazine. Henderson Lumber Co also sells the Hillman plastic gauge for about 10.00.

Jack Sykes

 

[McRabbet]

Jack,

Fast screws usually have a phillips head, hardened, coated with black oxide, and have a lubricant applied to them.

That's a good synopsis of the new technology in wood screws -- I use them for almost all of my cabinet making assembly because of their superior holding power and ease of use. I buy mine through Custom Service Hardware in Wisconsin and have found them to be a reliable source for much of the hardware I need for my commissioned projects.

By the way -- welcome to the NCWoodworker.net website! But you need to post a new thread under the Who We Are Forum and give yourself a proper introduction to our members here -- we're happy you found us and know that you'll have lots to share with all those years of experience.