wood bleach

[Jerome B]

So what is up with wood bleach. I can't find it anywhere.

I have a walnut washstand that I am having a few color issues. It has some really dark spots from pitting in the wood - gnarliness from a burl. I thought that I would bleach the top and the rest of the piece and then color it to give it an even color overall.

I was planning on using a 2 part peroxide wood bleach. I can't find the stuff. It use to be everywhere. Where has it gone? Are there new substitutions?

Thanks,

Jerome

 

[Mike Davis]

I used some in 1981, IIRC it was chlorine bleach in one bottle, you applied that and let it soak in for 15 minutes then the Hydrogen Peroxide was in the other bottle and you applied that. After a few minutes you had to rinse the wood with plenty of running water to get rid of the chemicals.

I wonder if household bleach and peroxide would work as well?

 

[sushinutnc]

The two-part treatment is actually sodium hydroxide, followed by hydrogen peroxide.

Jerome-- take a look at these:

http://antiquerestorers.com/Articles/jeff/using_wood_bleach.htm
http://www.woodmagazine.com/materials-guide/finishes/get-the-color-out-with-wood-bleach/

re: 2-part source:
Here's one of those typical mark-ups for woodworkers for what would otherwise be relatively cheap chemicals (in gallon only size...):
http://woodworker.com/wood-bleach-mssu-953-096.asp

(EDIT-- actually, it looks like the high concentration hydrogen peroxide is fairly expensive..... I could make my own for <1/3 their cost though).

I went to Klean-Strip's site and reviewed their MSDSs. Their two solutions are 3-7% sodium hydroxide and 25-30% hydrogen peroxide.

By comparison, Liquid Drano Pro is <2% sodium hydroxide (along with other chemicals such as sodium hypochlorite (aka household bleach)) and household peroxide is normally 3%.

 

[Jerome B]

That is a great article by Jeff. Thanks for pulling it. I missed it on my search. I
THey use to sell the stuff in half pint bottles I am not sure why they have set it up to be such a prohibitive experience. Anyway WWS is backlisted by two weeks for the stuff and it would be cheaper to just go buy new wood for the top.

ARRG.

By chance how does one make 3% Hydorgen peroxide?

Thanks,

The two-part treatment is actually sodium hydroxide, followed by hydrogen peroxide.

Jerome-- take a look at these:

http://antiquerestorers.com/Articles/jeff/using_wood_bleach.htm
http://www.woodmagazine.com/materials-guide/finishes/get-the-color-out-with-wood-bleach/

re: 2-part source:
Here's one of those typical mark-ups for woodworkers for what would otherwise be relatively cheap chemicals (in gallon only size...):
http://woodworker.com/wood-bleach-mssu-953-096.asp

(EDIT-- actually, it looks like the high concentration hydrogen peroxide is fairly expensive..... I could make my own for <1/3 their cost though).

I went to Klean-Strip's site and reviewed their MSDSs. Their two solutions are 3-7% sodium hydroxide and 25-30% hydrogen peroxide.

By comparison, Liquid Drano Pro is <2% sodium hydroxide (along with other chemicals such as sodium hypochlorite (aka household bleach)) and household peroxide is normally 3%.

 

[Jerome B]

At this point it can't hurt to try. I'll pick up some peroxide while I am in town today.

I used some in 1981, IIRC it was chlorine bleach in one bottle, you applied that and let it soak in for 15 minutes then the Hydrogen Peroxide was in the other bottle and you applied that. After a few minutes you had to rinse the wood with plenty of running water to get rid of the chemicals.

I wonder if household bleach and peroxide would work as well?

 

[sushinutnc]

By chance how does one make 3% Hydorgen peroxide?

Thanks,

You actually need a solution about 10 times stronger. I understand 35% food grade hydrogen peroxide is used in some form of homeopathic detoxification process... so you might be able to find that at a local natural foods/health store. Maybe. Otherwise, you can find that on the Internet.

re: the sodium hydroxide-- Food grade is available for bakers (used in making pretzels). Not sure if you'd be able to find it locally, but you can get it on the Internet. Please be warned-- it is extremely caustic. Will really burn if it touches your skin and will ruin clothing. You might be able to find it as lye, as well.... used in soap making among other things. The dry form (usually in pellets) is VERY VERY VERY caustic! (enough warnings?)

 

[froglips]

Bob Flexner has mentioned using Swimming Pool Bleach.

http://www.woodwork-magazine.com/index.php/archives/259

Jim

 

[Mike Davis]

Not enough for me...


Lye can actually burn the skin off your bones in a matter of minutes.

Wear heavy rubber gloves, work outside and keep a water hose RUNNING next to your work area.

If you get that strong concentration of lye on your skin you don't have time to go turn the water on.

YOU MUST FLUSH WITH PLENTY OF RUNNING WATER IMMEDIATELY!

 

[Mike Davis]

Jim, I believe he said oxalic acid IS NOT the same as swimming pool bleach.

 

[froglips]

Yup he sure did.

In his book "Understanding Wood Finishing" page 50, he discusses the differences and their application.

Sounds like changing the color of wood, a two part bleach is the best way to go.

Chlorine bleach (swimming pool) removes dye color and turns wood white.

Oxalic Acid is for removing rust and water stains.

Two part will help remove the natural color of wood.

So, happy to withdraw my suggestion. Chlorine bleach might work, but doesn't sound like what Jerome is after.

Jim

Jim, I believe he said oxalic acid IS NOT the same as swimming pool bleach.

 

[Howard Acheson]

>>>> Bob Flexner has mentioned using Swimming Pool Bleach.

There are three bleaches used in woodworking . Each has a specific use or application.

Chlorine bleach (a new bottle of Clorox) diluted 5 parts distilled water to 1 part bleach is used to remove dye stain from wood. It has little or no affect on the natural color of the wood.

Oxalic acid is the bleach used to remove mineral and plant and water stains from wood.

Two Part A/B bleach is used to remove or heavily lighten the natural color of wood. You will need to use it on the whole board or it will look very uneven in color.

 

[Gofor]

Not enough for me...


Lye can actually burn the skin off your bones in a matter of minutes.

Wear heavy rubber gloves, work outside and keep a water hose RUNNING next to your work area.

If you get that strong concentration of lye on your skin you don't have time to go turn the water on.

YOU MUST FLUSH WITH PLENTY OF RUNNING WATER IMMEDIATELY!

And that goes double for eye protection. Sodium Hydroxide can cause non-reversible degenerative blindness even if it does not blind you immediately. Protection + running water available when using it is a must!!

We used a big vat of it to strip paint/grease and remove rust off of steel support stands before re-painting back when I was in the AF. The stuff is nasty. Oh Yeah, it does not play well with aluminum either (will destroy it) and will also dissolve any zinc or galvanizing it gets in contact with. (The plus side of this is that you can strip galvanizing off a to-be-welded joint area using Draino crystals in solution. Problem is getting rid of the mess after you are done if you only have a septic tank.)

JMTCW

Go

 

[Mike Davis]

Thanks Howard and Jim. Good information on the three chemicals.

 

[sushinutnc]

I was a lab chemist for the first half of my career. I worked with 1000s of chemicals, carcinogens, heavy metals, toxic sludge, you name it. There were only a few other chemicals I hated working with more than concentrated sodium hydroxide.

Lab spills happen all the time. Eventually, every chemist learns not to lean up against a lab counter wherever it is used frequently.... you'll end up with a line of holes burned through your pants from the residue where someone didn't clean it up well enough.

 

[Jerome B]

Thanks guys for the great posts. Hmm It sounds like way too much work to make my own 2 part bleach. I think that I will put oxalic acidon it and see what happens, just for the sake of saying I tried something and then I will grind my teeth and go buy a new board and redo the silly top.

Thanks everyone.

Jerome

 

[Bill Clemmons]

Jerome, have you seen this post? He mentions bleaching. Maybe he can tell you what he used.

Bill

 

[Jerome B]

In a prior life I was a tissue culture researcher. We had to resolve to the fact that bleach was going to get your lab coat periodically no matter what.

Lab spills happen all the time. Eventually, every chemist learns not to lean up against a lab counter wherever it is used frequently.... you'll end up with a line of holes burned through your pants from the residue where someone didn't clean it up well enough.

 

[Howard Acheson]

Klingspor has 2 part A/B bleach. Have you tried them or other woodworking supply stores? I've also seen it in real paint stores.

http://www.woodworkingshop.com/cgi-bin/CEE7028A/mac/additmdtl.mac/showItemDetail?loadItem=LN80040

 

[Jerome B]

could you resend that link? this one doesn't quite work.

Thanks,

Jerome

 

[Mike Davis]

Worked for me.

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LITE-N-UP WOOD BLEACH/ PART A&B (QT)

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LN80040 Your Price: $ 24.95