Wincester Plane Replacement Blades

Gunnage

Greg
User
I have a Wincester Plane labeled #3005. I think I am in need of a new blade. I am unable to get the blade to extend out of the mouth without the chip breaker being a quarter inch up the blade which leads me to believe the blade is just out of sharpenings.

Does anyone know if a hock blade will fit? Some brief googling leads me to believe it is manufactured by sargent. Unclear if there are good replacement blades available.

Thanks,
Greg



IMG_0281.jpg
IMG_0282.jpg
 

mdbuntyn

Matt
Corporate Member
Yes, but you'll probably need to file the front of the mouth to make room for the extra thickness. I had to open the mouths of two of my Stanleys when I got Lee Valley irons, and they're not as thick as Hock irons.
 

Graywolf

Board of Directors, Vice President
Richard
Corporate Member
A few more pics of all the related parts would help
 

Charlie Buchanan

Charlie
Corporate Member
Yes, but you'll probably need to file the front of the mouth to make room for the extra thickness. I had to open the mouths of two of my Stanleys when I got Lee Valley irons, and they're not as thick as Hock irons.
Just make sure your frog is adjusted correctly before filing the front of the mouth. A smooth plane can be handicapped by too wide a mouth. I have mostly Hock irons and have never had to file when the frog is correctly positioned.
 

Gunnage

Greg
User
Thanks for all the replies! I should have known Rob Cosman would have a video for just this thing.

1) I've attached some more pictures of the parts.
2) I played with the frog a bunch and moved it forward and backwards many times. Any way you do it, i can't get the blade to protrude.

IMG_0286.jpg
IMG_0284.jpg
IMG_0285.jpg
IMG_0286.jpg
 

MarkE

Mark
Corporate Member
I would guess that you have an incorrect cap iron. Notice the position of the hole where the adjuster tab goes on your cap iron vs. the one in this picture.
Winchester cap iron.jpg
 
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Henry W

HenryW
Senior User
I am sooo much NOT an expert (and I hate to admit this, but...) that i don't even know all the names of the plane parts. So this is just my gut response.

I stress: No disrespect or offense is intended! These are simply my stupid questions and ponderings because I truly don't know any better

I have difficulty imagining that the blade you show is so short so as not to be able to protrude beyond the base/body (and therefore be able to cut/plane).
Can you explain what limits the downward travel or setting) of the blade (with chip breaker set close to edge of blade)?
Is the chip breaker limiting this? Or some other piece?
You mentioned playing with frog positions, so I assume that you have pulled it all the way back for maximum opening, correct (I believe you mentioned this, but checking anyways)?
Are you certain you have not mixed up plane parts with another plane, or that this is assembled correctly? Basic questions I know, and again I intend no disrespect; I have made so many errors with planes that my mind goes to troubleshooting mode, asking myself "What could possibly be wrong here?". Seems like if the chip breaker is too short, that might cause the issue (again showing my ignorance). Are all chip breakers the same length?

EDIT - Mark posted as I was writing - same basic idea, so I don't feel too stupid (at least no more than necessary).
 

MarkE

Mark
Corporate Member
I am about 98% certain that the problem is an incorrect cap iron.

In this picture you can see the difference in two cap irons. The one on the left has the cut out for the length adjustment tab at just about an inch above the threaded hole where it attaches to the cutting iron.
The one on the right has that same cutout at about 7/16" above the threaded hole.

It would seem that you need a cap iron similar to the one on the left.
20200319_115925.jpg


FYI, both of these cap irons came off of Stanley Bailey planes from different eras. The one on the left is from the late 1800's, the other from a more modern plane, probably from the 1940-1960 range.
 
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Graywolf

Board of Directors, Vice President
Richard
Corporate Member
Yep, I’d have to say Mark is on to something. thanks for adding your pictures that helps.
 

Jeff

Jeff
Corporate Member
Did you get this plane recently at an auction, EBay, or a garage sale? You're trying to set it up and this adjustment issue is stopping you?

Mark and Graywolf can help but I don't know where you can get a cap iron that fits properly. I can't find much about the history of Winchester hand planes. A little info from Sawmill Creek. Maybe you can find a Sargent cap iron that will work.


Actually, both Stanley and Sargent made planes for Winchester.

If the model numbers begin with "3" (3004, 3008. etc.) then it was made by Sargent.

If the number begins with "W" (W004, W008, etc.) then it's a Stanley. Some of the "W" models (not all) are early-type Bedrocks.

Either way, they're well made planes, and some folks do have a collector interest in them.
 
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Graywolf

Board of Directors, Vice President
Richard
Corporate Member
There’s a start! My only other suggestion would be a couple guys on eBay that deal in parts, however, you need to know what you’re looking for. For that Chris is better suited to help.
 

Gunnage

Greg
User
Wow, thanks everyone for the responses. I measured mine some calipers, and it's 3.7305" from the end of the iron to the cutout for the adjustment tab. The distance between the tab and the threaded hole is 0.5" I'm not sure the proper measurement for this plane. I'm pretty surprised that it would be the wrong cap iron, as it was a hand-me-down and the blade actually says Winchester on it but stranger things happen.

Mark - I'm trying wrap my brain around your side by side comparison. Why wouldn't I want the cap iron like the one of the left? That would give me longer distance between the cutout for the adjustment tab and the end of the cap iron.
 

Chris C

Chris
Senior User
After looking at the pics I'm not sure that he doesn't has the correct cap iron. Notice the oval hole... That's a Sargent made cap.
 

MarkE

Mark
Corporate Member
Wow, thanks everyone for the responses. I measured mine some calipers, and it's 3.7305" from the end of the iron to the cutout for the adjustment tab. The distance between the tab and the threaded hole is 0.5" I'm not sure the proper measurement for this plane. I'm pretty surprised that it would be the wrong cap iron, as it was a hand-me-down and the blade actually says Winchester on it but stranger things happen.

Mark - I'm trying wrap my brain around your side by side comparison. Why wouldn't I want the cap iron like the one of the left? That would give me longer distance between the cutout for the adjustment tab and the end of the cap iron.
Sorry George, you are correct. I got my lefts and rights backwards. I have corrected my post. The cap iron you need is the one on the LEFT with the adjustment rectangle about 1" up from the threaded hole.
 

MarkE

Mark
Corporate Member
After looking at the pics I'm not sure that he doesn't has the correct cap iron. Notice the oval hole... That's a Sargent made cap.
It could very well be a Sargent cap iron, just not the correct Sargent cap iron. I have seen Sargent cap irons with the slot in (at least) both of those positions.
 

MarkE

Mark
Corporate Member
One other issue the I ran into a while back.

I was swapping out the oem irons and cap irons one my user planes. I had a bunch of Hock irons and cap irons I picked up over the years that I installed, then started buying Veritas PM-V11 irons and matching cap irons for the rest of my planes. I had a couple of Stanley planes that had a similar problem to the one described in the original post here. With the cap iron set properly I was unable to get the cutting iron to extend through the mouth of the plane. When it got close, I was no longer able to turn the adjuster nut, even though there appeared to be more adjustment available. It turned out that the screw that holds the cap iron to the cutting iron was bottoming out on the lower edge of the recess in the surface of the frog, preventing the assembly from moving toward the mouth of the plane. If I moved the cap iron up relative to the cutting iron I could then adjust the iron enough to get it to and through the mouth opening.

I went back and forth via email with Lee-Valley/Veritas support to see if we could resolve the problem. We could not.

I ended up comparing the Veritas cap iron to a Hock cap iron and found that the Hock cap iron had it's threaded hole a bit further away from the leading edge then the Veritas cap iron did. I put the Hock cap iron on a Veritas PM-V11 blade and that solved the problem. I have two different Stanley planes that required this 'fix'.

I don't know if this is the same problem you are having as the difference in this case was a lot less then the 1/4" you described.
 

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