Why a ZCI is a good idea on a bandsaw

[adowden]

This morning I was thoroughly enjoying my new Minimax 16" bandsaw. I was ripping small (1/4") scrap pieces for my daughter's preschool woodworking area. Everything was going great until ... a piece got stuck in the table insert, jammed the blade, and messed up the guides, insert, and Lennox carbide blade (less than 1 week old) :cry_smile. The top right guide was totally cut off and the bottom guides were damaged enough to need replacement.

The good news is I wasn't hurt at all. Now my next project is to make a good zero clearance insert for the bandsaw. I just wish I had learned this lesson on a cheaper blade!

Amy

 

[striker]

Amy,

Sorry to hear about your saw woes. I have the MM16 also. I was never very fond of the plastic table insert so I machined a 1/8 x 1/8 step around the edge of the table opening and made my own aluminum 1/8 thick insert plate. I also sprung for Carter guides to replace the factory guides. I go from 1/4 blades to larger blades and it got to be a pain to swap out between guides to cool blocks.

Stephen

 

[Bas]

Ouch! Sorry to hear you messed up your new [STRIKE]toy[/STRIKE] tool. Table saw, band saw, router table, they all need ZCIs - too bad they aren't included with the tool itself.

Hope you're up and running soon.

 

[LeftyTom]

Amy, that is a reminder of an overdue tool upgrade for folks like me, who have never used a ZCI, but have been fortunate in sidestepping mishaps (sometimes literally)

 

[DIYGUY]

Hey Amy,
Not a pretty picture but I am glad it is not one of an injury to you. The parts are far easier to repair/replace than the bones of a hand, so good on you for avoiding an injury and thinking ahead to minimize future risk.

The ZCI on a BS is one I have thought about, but im my case there is a practical issue involved. I am not sure how I would manufacture them. My insert is round. If I were to make one of my own I think the best way would be to turn a wood blank on my lathe that is the correct diameter. Then, (sort of like slicing baloney) use the BS to cut off the inserts. Has anyone come up with a better method?? And what would be the ideal wood? Maple might be good. And I suppose I would have to orient the grain at 90 degrees to the direction of the cut to minimize the risk of splitting in two. Other thoughts?

 

[fsdogwood]

Depending on your saw, one could buy those round plastic inserts.
Unlike a ZCI for TS, one could cut with the TS blade, which is a natural
process. How would I cut/make the blade slot for the BS ZCI?

Regards.

Pinwu

 

[Travis Porter]

I am totally stunned....

First, that you never shared that you got a MiniMax!!!

Secondly, that a scrap could do that much damage.

I hate the inserts for the Minimax, and need to do something myself.

Charles, can you post some pictures of what you did?

Now I am going to check out the guides from Carter as well.

 

[Douglas Robinson]

The ZCI on a BS is one I have thought about, but im my case there is a practical issue involved. I am not sure how I would manufacture them. My insert is round. If I were to make one of my own I think the best way would be to turn a wood blank on my lathe that is the correct diameter. Then, (sort of like slicing baloney) use the BS to cut off the inserts. Has anyone come up with a better method??

How about a simple circle cutter. I have an adjustable one. Simply set it to the proper diameter and cut a piece of wood of the correct thickness. Seems easier than using the lathe and then trying to cut an even thickness slice. Just my 2 cents.

Doug

 

[dino drosas]

I agree about the cheesy plastic inserts that come with the saws. I had a MM20 and now a Laguga 24 and the are similar. I made a ZCI out of wood and it works very well for almost a year now. The kerf has enlarged over time and at a point I will replace it.

You should be able to get a replacement for the broken part on that guide, but if not, I would put the good remaining guide below the table and buy a new Carter guide for the top guide. Of course you could buy both new Carters, but I'm try to save you some bucks.

Here are some pics of the inserts I made:

 

[Travis Porter]

Dino, did you put any screws or anything in it to adjust the height?

 

[dino drosas]

If you look closely at the picture you can see that the cast iron table has hieght adjustment screws built into it at the bottom of the recess.

 

[cpowell]

Whoa, that's a bummer! :thumbs_do

My MM16 insert is pretty much crappo too, dished out in the center. I have sliced some thin stock and not had a problem. I'm trying to figger out how the stock got bound up in the insert. I would bet it all happened very quickly. :icon_scra

No matter, really. Your post reminds me I need to address the problem. I like Dino's solution. :icon_thum

Amy - glad it was just wood and machinery that got modified and you are in one piece. :gar-Bi


Chuck

 

[striker]

I share Travis's Opinion of the throat plate. This is what I did to remedy the poor design.

 

[DavidF]

The only problem I see with making your own wooden ones is that the bottom of the slot has to be beveled to allow you to tilt the table if the slot is a tight fit around the blade (which is the whole point of the exercise after all!) Maybe a thin metal one is the way to go. I still have the original ZCI that came with the saw 25 years ago!

 

[Travis Porter]

The only problem I see with making your own wooden ones is that the bottom of the slot has to be beveled to allow you to tilt the table if the slot is a tight fit around the blade (which is the whole point of the exercise after all!) Maybe a thin metal one is the way to go. I still have the original ZCI that came with the saw 25 years ago!

I too have the original throat plate on my Delta, but you have to see to appreciate how much a POS the throat plate is on the MiniMax. On the Delta it is a thin piece of round metal with a rim. On the MM, it is a warped/deformed square piece of plastic that has 1.5" legs on it. The plastic has holes in it so that it can catch any scrap pieces and make you have to shut the saw off to remove them.

Between Striker and Dino I will be adopting one of their methodologies.

 

[striker]

I should have explained in my post earlier.... The step I put in the table was done on a Bridgeport. I'm fortunate to have access to a toolroom at my work. If you're considering the modification you may have to track down a shop to do the machine work.

 

[adowden]

Thanks for all the suggestions and great pictures. I will definitely be doing something like the pictured ZCIs.

As a quick update, I have trouble getting a person in the parts department at Minimax - usually voicemail. So I called Louis Iturra and he was very helpful. He is going to send me a ceramic euro set of guides to try ($72 for all four). He did say the threads were designed after an 18" Bridgeport and they have found that not all European threads on the guides are the same. He did say that he loves the Carter Ball Bearing Guides. I think they sound awesome too, but right now $72 would be alot easier to spring than $220. So if the ceramic guide threads don't fit, plan B is the Carter guides. He also said that since 1/2 of the TiC blade is OK, they can weld another 1/2 to it and just charge for the length of new material.

I still can't believe it happened. It was so fast. The blade was almost touching the insert on the left side so there was a substantial gap on the right side. I could feel the small scrap pieces dip down as I was resawing it. It must have just continued into the gap on the right side and ... pow ... bam ... boom. Well I waited ten years for a better bandsaw, so I can wait a little longer. Plus I still have my trusty Craftsman 12" BS that I was going to dedicate to narrower blades.

Amy

 

[cpowell]

Amy - was your offcut between fence and blade or to the right of the blade? How long was the stock? Was the stock referenced firmly against the infeed table top? against the MM fence?

Resawing/ripping very short scrap pieces with thin offcuts could cause a problem...or maybe allowing the leading edge of the stock to dip downward as it was crossing the insert.

IIRC you should be able to adjust the table so that the blade is centered in the insert slot. (It's been a few years since I set mine up.)

I have read a lot of endorsements for the Carter guides but don't see them as better than the Euro guides for 90 percent of the work I do. I'll admit the MM/Euro style will not work for less than 1/4 inch blades. Really I don't like the Euros for less than 3/8 blades.

I like the Euro style guides because they are fast and accurate to set up once you get past a brief learning curve.

I would like to hear what you think about the ceramic guides. I remember looking at demos with the ceramic (I think) guides on the Laguna LT-16HD when I bought my BS at the Charlotte WW show. I have always wondered how well they work.


Chuck

 

[mshel]

Adding nothing whatsoever; however, after reading this post, I decided to take Dino's lead and make a new insert for my MM16. I didn't spend a lot of time on it (as is evidenced by the pic) but I believe it will suffice. I used a piece of thick walnut and cut / filed / sanded to fit. I will probably make a better fitting one when I have the time.

MIke

 

[cpowell]

Adding nothing whatsoever; however, after reading this post, I decided to take Dino's lead and make a new insert for my MM16. I didn't spend a lot of time on it (as is evidenced by the pic) but I believe it will suffice. I used a piece of thick walnut and cut / filed / sanded to fit. I will probably make a better fitting one when I have the time.

MIke

Man, I wish you have made TWO of them!! :rolf: How did you adjust the fit to make it level with the top?

(just a statement from a lazy WWer who lives down the road a piece from Mshel and knows the quality of his work!! :icon_thum)


Chuck