(Update Sketchup pics) How far do you separate your Dogs?

[michaelgarner]

Hello friends,
I am working on the last steps for my bench and I was just wondering how many rows of dog holes are normal in a bench, as well as the spacing. I am using a veritas twin as the tail vise and a quick release on the front. I am also using round bench dogs from veritas (honestly I am not in business with them), I believe Jeremy (WoodWrangler) made his dog holes 7/8 in instead of 3/4. Is this a better way to do it? What are your opinions? Ohh the bench I am modeling my bench after Niall Barrett's (The Workbench by Schlepping pg.138 ) he didn't have dog holes in his bench because that was what he was taught in Ireland. I however am an American (proud Irish heritage though) and want dog holes in my bench and want to use his ideas with mine. Its a simple bench, nothing like the likes of Monty's, WoodWranglers or the other great woodworkers here. But I am in the military and I have to move a lot and this will be able to be knocked down and be able to be resurfaced when it needs it from the varying climents it will be forced to live in. Here is a picture (pic not that great sorry) of the original bench to give you and idea. The bench is 2" 3/4 thick, 25"X70" long. Have a blessed day friends.

 

[Travis Porter]

Re: How far do you seperate your Dogs?

For spacing, I used 5 3/4 inches between each dog front to front. I only put one row of dogs in, but I wish I had backset them further than 1 1/2 inches from the front edge. 3 inches would have been ideal for me.

 

[michaelgarner]

Re: How far do you separate your Dogs?

Travis,
Thanks for the info, I was thinking that i didn't want to put them too close to the front edge. Do you have a traditional tail vise on yours? (That being why you have one row?)

 

[LeftyTom]

Re: How far do you separate your Dogs?

Michael, when I built my bench, I could not find any info on dog spacing. So as a WAG, I chose 8" between dog holes. I picked a spacing that would allow my holdfasts to overlap.

 

[Guy in Paradise]

What type of drill are you going to use?

I took am finishing a workbench, like the Christopher Schwartz's Ruobo bench, and need to finish one vise and put in the dog holes. Holes that are further apart would mean less drilling. It would be nice to hear what the optimum distance apart is for dog holes.

But what type of drill would be best? My bench is 3 1/2" thick oak made from some left over 4x8 timbers from a construction project. It is great, but before I start drilling I want to have a plan, and that has been slow on coming.

I would appreciate any ideas.

 

[CrealBilly]

Re: How far do you separate your Dogs?

Far enough that they won't fight

 

[timf67]

Re: How far do you separate your Dogs?

my bench is 3" thick maple and I drilled the holes after I finished using a shop made jig. For spacing, I used the spacing between the dog holes on my tucker vise (7 3/4"). The jig was made using two 3/4" steel drill guides spaced at 7 3/4" mounted in a 3/4" thick strip of MDF. I then attached a "fence" to the jig to set the spacing from the edge of the bench. Finally I set the spacing for the holes based on the location of my tucker vise and twin screw tail vise. here it is:

 

[WoodWrangler]

Re: How far do you separate your Dogs?

I went with 3" for most of them (not in front of the twin screw). This was a Christopher Schwartz recommendation in his book, so I went with. Time will tell if that was a good decision, but I can't see how it can be bad.

 

[jamie]

Re: How far do you separate your Dogs?

Far enough that they won't fight

Thanks for saying it, I have been fighting the urge for a smart alec comment all day


You also want to make sure that they are separated less than your vise opening, by quite a bit (don't want to have to crank the vise all the way open because you just missed one). with a quick release, might not be a huge issue, but still. If they are further apart than your vice capacity, you could end up with stuff you can't hold.

 

[NCPete]

Re: How far do you separate your Dogs?

Far enough that they won't fight

and that they don't get their chains caught up with each other.

 

[dkeller_nc]

Re: How far do you separate your Dogs?

Thanks for saying it, I have been fighting the urge for a smart alec comment all day


You also want to make sure that they are separated less than your vise opening, by quite a bit (don't want to have to crank the vise all the way open because you just missed one). with a quick release, might not be a huge issue, but still. If they are further apart than your vice capacity, you could end up with stuff you can't hold.

There is another aspect to this that requires close dog spacing, but it depends on how you work. If you do a fair amount of handplaning to clean it up after the machines, and your habit is to clamp the board between a dog in the benchtop and a dog in the end vise, then you typically don't want the vise opening more than 3" or so. Any more, and the unsupported section of the board over the gap in the vise will flex under the pressure from handplaning, which guarantees and out-of-flat condition when you finish.

 

[michaelgarner]

Re: How far do you separate your Dogs?

Thanks for the info everyone, I am going to make a pattern in Google sketch-up so that I have measurements to go off of.

 

[Travis Porter]

Re: How far do you separate your Dogs?

Yes, I have a traditional tail vise, and that is why I have one row. I have no regrets with having one row as I have never had anything but one row, still, it hasn't been an issue for me at all and this is my 3rd workbench with bench dogs.

I do really wish it was 3" backset instead of the 1.5". I think it would be nice to not have to have stuff so close to the edge.

 

[SRhody]

Re: How far do you separate your Dogs?

What worked for me is about 6" on center with 3/4 holes. Also went with the veritas products :gar-Bi:

The 6" spacing balances out the end vise and the wonder dog screw length to cover down on any width between 0 and ~60" (if I used the whole length and the vise). T-tracks help out with any other variation I could come up with.

The bench:


A couple more shots in the gallery. thanks for looking.

 

[michaelgarner]

Re: How far do you separate your Dogs?

SRhody-- nice bench! Thanks for the info.

Travis-- I am taking your advice into account on spacing, I think I am going to go with 3" vice offset and then 6" center following that. Has anyone one had problems with hold-downs enlarging the holes in their bench?

 

[michaelgarner]

Re: How far do you separate your Dogs?

Here are the Sketch-up Pics of the bench hole layout, I am so thankful for this program. I was able to identify potential problems before I started adding the vices.

Let me know what you think, the holes start from the end-vise three inches from the tail-face, and then six in center there after. I wanted to incorporate a wooden bench stop so I jut slide the front vice down to align with the holes. My only concern in mounting my vice is that it is a steel quick release and I have to mount it below the bench with lag bolts. I will have to look at the footprint of the dog holes in relation to the mounting bolts of the vise. I have the top done in four pieces waiting to drill the holes (I'm going to do what WoodWranger did and drill them a bit larger than 3/4) I have all of the stretchers done and now I just need to bolt up the legs, glue the top after drilling, and then install vices. Its been fun!

 

[WoodWrangler]

Re: How far do you separate your Dogs?

Have you considered switching the vice locations? Meaning put the larger vice on the side, and the smaller quick-release on the end? You might want to play with that idea. Another consideration would be to bring the dog holes in front of the small vice closer together (3" OC).

 

[michaelgarner]

Jeremy,
Those are some good points, how do you like the twin screw on the front of your bench? What are the pro's and cons with switching the twin screw vise to the front? I will have to re-configure the holes for the small vice if I keep it up front, I guess I will play with the design some and switch the vices around to play with them.

 

[WoodWrangler]

Honestly, I haven't used it enough yet to give a fair opinion so for starters it's great and I can see how it will be a benefit. The recommendation comes from Christopher Schwartz in his book Workbenches (the blue one). Though he lists a few other benefits, the one that sticks out for me was the ease of working with long boards down the long side of the bench with the larger vice.

Another bench suggestion (again from the CW book) is to keep the legs flush with the top. The bench is seen as a HUGE clamping surface and by keeping the legs flush you get to use them to clamp things vertically.

If you haven't read that book ... I would highly recommend it. I bought, and read, six different workbenches book ... and none were as good as that one .... which I borrowed! ha

 

[michaelgarner]

Jeremy,
I can see the benefit if keeping the legs flush with the top. I haven't cut the stretchers for the legs so I could easily add a couple of inches in width to make it flush, I can see the benefit on that one. I am also toying with idea of swapping the twin screw for the front vise and the quick release for the tail. One advantage that I can see would be less holes in the top so the overall weight would increase a little. What is the length of your face vice? Thanks for your help.