The risks of teaching woodworking

[BKind2Anmls]

A friend of mine who has been woodworking for a long time was showing the daughter (she's 40) of his good friends how to use the table saw. Unfortunately, she slipped and is now missing a thumb, part of a finger and her palm was cut open, all during her first week of woodworking.

It was a reminder for me that, although I would love to pass on my passion, I'm not willing to accept responsibility for someone else using my equipment. The only thing I've let people do is turn pens on my small lathe and I feel pretty confident about that as long as I am watching every step. I can't imagine how terrible I would feel if someone got seriously hurt.

I sure wish the Saw-Stop was more affordable.

 

[Dragon]

OH MAN!:cry_smile You know that's gotta hurt and probably scared the crap out of everyone present. Sorry to hear about that. I do agree with you however about not letting others use my tools. Just too much risk on so many levels.

 

[Trent Mason]

Susan,

I'm really sorry to hear about that. She will definitely be in our prayers.

As far as liability goes, I had a gentleman and his son over to the shop two weeks ago and turned a baseball bat for them for his son's school project. (He actually posted asking for help on NCWWer). The father inquired about the possibility of his son turning it and I had to politely decline. I hated to do it, but didn't want to be liable if anything happened (plus a baseball bat isn't exactly a pen) :nah:. I did, however, encourage them to get a lathe and start turning if they are really interested in it. :icon_thum

 

[RayH]

Susan,

I am so sorry for your friends and what has happened. I am even more sorry for all of us that responsibility and liability have become so intertwined that we are afraid to help each other. I guess it's an age thing. Sigh.

Ray

 

[ehpoole]

I cringe even reading this post. That is an awful introduction to woodworking, I would not wish it upon anyone (student OR teacher)! Your friend and and his student are most definitely in my thoughts. :eusa_pray

I wish her as speedy and complete a recovery as possible given the circumstances. I wish your friend the best as well, I know something like this takes time to get past. It was not his fault, but those of us who care often shoulder that burden nonetheless.

Please let us know how she's fairing after surgery and physical therapy.

ON LIABILITY: I, too, would love to teach woodworking to others as well (particularly the younger generation), but the liability aspect frightens myself as well. Hopefully we'll one day get back to the notion of personal responsibility and recognizing that with any hobby or endeavor come certain inherent risks, if one is not willing to bear that risk, and responsibility, then they have nor business engaging in that hobby or endeavor.

If insurance companies would stop settling frivolous claims and instead fight them, then this problem will be largely nipped in the bud. Unfortunately, insurance companies earn higher profits off the higher premiums and there is no existing economic force preventing them from continually raising their rates to more than cover their losses. I have no problem with them paying honest claims, but this business of settling on bogus claims to "save the cost of legal fees" is nonsense and the source of our current liability dilemma because it does nothing less than fuel ever increasing bogus claims.

Just my 2 cents. :wink_smil

 

[ss600r]

I'm sorry to hear about the accident and hope the recovery is speedy.

I'm no expert woodworker by any means, not really an expert at anything(except being a pain to my wife lol) but I personally feel its safer to teach someone than to have them go it alone. But thats a choice we each have to make. ehpool made a good point on liability, the person should know the risk.

 

[Bas]

Definitely very sad news, and I hope she recovers without any further problems.

My best friend's daughter wanted to build a staff to accessorize a costume a couple of years ago. Fortunately, she was an excellent student and very meticulous, and followed all the safety precautions. I let her use the band saw, power sander, and hand tools. However, I did all the cutting on the table saw and routing. Not that you can't cut yourself on a band saw or take some skin off with a sander, but the extent of the damage is likely to be much smaller. As for her younger brother - I'd let him use a rasp and sandpaper. Well, maybe just sandpaper. 220 grit and finer.

As for liability, let's be careful and not get off track on legislation, lawsuits and insurance. But one thing to keep in mind is that a good woodworker is not necessarily a good teacher. We should definitely be hesitant in bringing a novice into the shop, no matter how confident we are in our own skill. We've learned what works and doesn't work and what to watch out for, and expanded on what we're comfortable doing (ripping larger boards, routing smaller pieces, etc.). But a student will often assume that this is "normal" and copy what you do. It is also difficult to expect what someone will do. My mother-in-law wanted to help with a project once. I was ripping a board, and while the blade was still spinning, she reached over the blade for the off-cut. My heart nearly stopped. Nothing happened, but that's when you realize one false move can spell disaster. If something had gone wrong that day, I would have been responsible, even if I didn't make the mistake.

Will I help someone with a project? Definitely. But as for how much they get to do themselves largely depends on how much I think I can trust them. Trust is earned. And before turning on any tool in the shop, I will walk them through the safety steps, explain what can go wrong, what to expect etc. And not just the first day, but EVERY day. There is a reason Norm repeated his safety warnings every show. Even if I'm the one actually using the tool, I will still provide instructions. You do not want to joint an 8ft board and have your student "help" you by grabbing the board as it extends beyond the outfeed table. If they even lift it slightly it'll slam into the cutterhead.

 

[Gofor]

I am sorry for your friend and her "student". Tragic, and does make one re-evaluate what they are willing to do for others.

Personally, I will not do an "impromptu" demonstration of any tool. That's not to say if a fellow woodworker shows up while I am doing something, that everything stops, but if it is a neighbor, family, etc, I stop work while they are in the shop. That is for my safety as well as theirs, because I do my best to limit distractions. If they want a demo, or to try something, we set a date for it so I am mentally prepared to be in "teacher" mode. My pre-teen grand-nieces have been involved in a couple of projects, but they were planned ahead of time, and limited in scope. One nephew has come a long way in confidence and ability, part because of watching me use the tools on joint projects, asking how and why, and also because he is smart enough to do his own research and not try to do something without a bit of preparation.

At first, some of the family took a bit of offense to this, but have learned its my house, my castle, I'm fully responsible here, so I am in charge (in my shop and my wife has given me permission to be in charge THERE :gar-Bi).

A parallel would be teaching someone to drive. If you unlocked your car and someone you knew or just had met jumped into the driver's seat and said "Show me how to drive this thing", what would your reaction be?
Probably not gonna happen. Many of the tools we use can cause just as damaging a result.

JMTCW

Go

 

[BKind2Anmls]

Update.

They reattached her thumb but it is not "taking" so they may just have to remove it completely. They flew her up to Charlotte from Columbia. I got a little bit more of the story. She pushed a board through and when she brought her hand back toward her body she had it too low and dragged it across the blade. She admits that it was her fault and that my friend had showed her all of the safety procedures. Just one little moment of relaxation.

 

[TracyP]

Update.

They reattached her thumb but it is not "taking" so they may just have to remove it completely. They flew her up to Charlotte from Columbia. I got a little bit more of the story. She pushed a board through and when she brought her hand back toward her body she had it too low and dragged it across the blade. She admits that it was her fault and that my friend had showed her all of the safety procedures. Just one little moment of relaxation.

Unfortunately a second is all it takes. My right hand is missing a third of the index finger and a quarter of the middle finger. It is a life changing event. Tell your friend that there is hope though. I am currently learning to play the piano with my handicap. You have to learn to adapt. It ain't easy but it is important to learn to overcome. My fingers were reattached and then later removed. I was saddened when they told me that because I was a smoker they couldn't save my digits. But I faced reality and went on. I cringe every time I fire up a power tool in the shop. My accident was with a hydraulic wood splitter. But it can happen with any woodworking machinery. Especially a table saw. I am adding your friend to my prayers as I really feel the pain.

 

[LeftyTom]

Mojo sent. I've come out of my "Ooops moments" unscathed, and always more careful. woodworking is one of those things that you have to think through your tool use, and STILL be ready for thinks to go bad.