Table top weight

[JimD]

I need a new dining room table and am at the stage of thinking about what I want to do but will not be building it for at least a month or two. I like a design by April Wilderson, who does youtubes, who painted her softwood base white and put a walnut top on it. I would dye the base black and put a cherry top on it. But I like the shape of her base. Her top is much smaller than I need, however. My dining room is 12 by 16 feet. So I'm thinking of a table at least 3 feet wide and 8 to 10 feet long. I want to be able to seat at least 10 people around it. Here is a link to April's project:

But a limitation is the weight. If I were to make a solid cherry top 10 feet long, 3 feet wide and 2 inches thick, it would weigh about 250 lbs! (I am using a density of 50 lbs/ft3 for cherry which I think is roughly about right) How do I move that around the shop? How do I flip it over? How do I get it into the dining room?

Woodsmith has a design where to main top is plywood but you edge it with solid wood to give it the appearance of a thicker top and the breadboard ends can be slid out so you can put a little leaf at each end. A plywood piece 3 feet by 8 feet would be about 55lbs. Even with a solid cherry 2x2 edge, it should be under 100 lbs. That would be much more manageable. But is the thin veneer of the plywood durable enough for a dining table? Maybe look for solid core plywood?

Or I could make the top of 4x4 stock, 3/4 of an inch thick, and just glue on a thicker edge. That would be durable enough and would look like a thick top unless you looked up underneith. It would add about 20 lbs to the weight but I could probably tip and slide it during fabrication and then get my son to help install it (or a neighbor).

Thoughts, ideas, or experiences would help me think this through.

 

[chris_goris]

I recently finished a live edge maple top that measures 42 x 104 x 2" thick. I dont know how much it weighs, but it was a monster to deal with in the shop. It definitely takes 2 people, so have help available!

 

[Jeff]

I calculate 175 lbs using your dimensions (10' x 3' x 2" = 5 cu ft) and 35 lb/cu ft. Lots of other sources sites show cherry at 50 lbs/cu ft which seems too high. That's still heavy.

Black Cherry | The Wood Database (Hardwood)

www.wood-database.com

 

[zdorsch]

Jim,

I built a table of similar dimensions 8 to 9 years ago using 6/4 cherry.

I dimensioned the rough lumber, glued up the and mortised the legs, and tenoned the stretchers in the shop. For the top I glued it up and then moved it to its final place. Sanding and finishing the top occurred in the room where the table still resides. I did have a helper anytime I needed to move the the top.

Is your dining room closed off or open to the rest of the house? In my case I used dust collection and closed the room off where I worked saving me a lot from moving that table too much.

I did a similar project using 8/4 oak that was a real bear to move from one floor to another. Given the choice I would not move something that size again!

 

[medic]

I made a similar table a year ago ,X brace table 40 x 96. Something to consider, in size, is that you have to figure you need space for people to comfortably move in or out which will add to your placement footprint in the room. I don't know the size of your shop (mine is 320 sq. ft.) but to move it around is a bear . Also you will need to consider some kind of center support as a span that long will sag over time. I made mine out of 8/4 oak so you will defently need help moving it. Finished weight was close to 200 pounds. If i knew how to post pics i can send to show what i did, but i built the base first and using the base as a platform built the top glueing up sections . One other consideration is moving it to it's new home i had to truck it to my daughters house and assemble it there. but in the end the look on her face was well worth the effort

 

[JimD]

Zach,

There are two doorways in the dining room, one regular sized and another that is 5 feet or so wide and about 7 feet tall. But they can be closed off with plastic. One option I am considering is to make the base in the shop and move it to the dining room first. I would leave the center stretcher and any connections between the legs off at the top off and attach them in the dining room. I am confident of my ability to do this. I would then prepare the boards for the top in the shop but move them and glue them up in the dining room. My Bosch DEVS 1250 sander has good dust collection so I could finish sanding the top in the dining room. I live alone without a handy helper so turning the top over to do the bottom is a significant issue with this plan. I may be able to tilt and slide it. I could also just sand what I can get to and not worry about the slight thickness differences between the boards on the bottom are not all eliminated. But applying finish is another point at which I would want to turn things over. Doing it myself without dinging the top doesn't seem likely.

My best plan may be to use 4/4 stock for most of the top and just beef up the edges. I'll have to go over the numbers again but I think I can keep the total weight closer to 100 lbs that way. 3/4 cherry for the top does not worry me for durability the thicker edges is just for appearances. Best approach might still be to make the top in halves completing it to the point of at least the first layer or two of finish before it comes into the dining room. Then join the halves in the dining room, sand the one seam and do the final finish. I can join the halves with a spline or something so I can even have it pretty well sanded before bringing it inside.

If I can keep the weight down to no more than 100 lbs, I can probably just complete it and bring it in. I handle full sheets of 3/4 plywood fairly regularly without issue and they are 75 lbs or so. Last year I put the marble top of a 5 foot long vanity in place with the sinks and faucets attached without great difficulty. I don't know what that weighed but it wasn't light.

Jim

 

[TENdriver]

Jim, I spent the better part of my first eight years of college dealing with such questions, and since you’re asking, here’s some thoughts.



Firstly, it would be helpful if you shared a general room diagram along with the placement of any other pieces of furniture (other than chairs ) that will be in the room.



Generally speaking, a 36 inch wide dining table is quite narrow. Our personal table is a 44 inch wide 8-top oval, and for family style service, we’ve found that the width is usually too narrow. We still end up using a hunt board on the side. Space permitting, more surface area is better.


Design wise, there are many solutions to achieving seating for 10 that won’t cause future injuries. Those other designs could also offer some flexibility for a very large piece of furniture that hopefully will be usable in other homes in the future.

A solid top is often not the most versatile. A solid 8/4 top is even less so. Think extending end boards or even two separate bases. Either of those would offer significant flexibility beyond a long solid surface. The extending table would also offer the additional visual thickness you’ve mentioned.

There’s definitely more to be said on the subject, but this would be a good place to start.

 

[JimD]

Right now, the only furniture in this room is a breakfast table that will move out when I get a dining table built. It is wide open. Two walls of the room have 4 very large windows, however, looking out at the lake. The large doorway is in the 12 foot end of the room so there is little wall space there. The smaller doorway is in the 16 foot wall. It is even further down the road but I might want a sideboard or hutch or something on that wall. But even long term, two walls will have nothing on them due to the window and the other wall can't have much of anything because of the doorway. But if I go 44 wide on the table I pretty much can't have other furniture in the room - but that could be A OK. I have plenty of cabinet storage in the adjacent kitchen and a 44 inch wide table should hold the meal OK. If we have to, we could even have some dishes on the counter in the kitchen.

I don't know how many grand-kids I will end up with so I am thinking I need to seat at least 10. My daughter and her husband will deliver their second in a week or so and my son and his wife will have their first this fall. Depending on how things go, a table for 10 might or might not be enough.

If I go 44 wide, a 8 foot table should handle 10. If I have it extend a couple feet, it could probably do 12 people. I am considering a design that has removable breadboard ends so you can insert a small leaf in each end.

I am thinking that I will make the base later this year and leave open the option of moving the supports further apart. But build it for a 8 foot table with modest overhangs at the end, maybe only a foot. If I truly want a 10 foot table I would make the base longer. But if it is just extendable, that should work. Anyway, I can cut a sheet of plywood for a temporary table top and try it out with the kids. I'll put a table cloth on it so the ugly plywood will not be staring us in the face. But that would provide a real life experiment on size. I could do 44"x8'. But changing the width of the base would be harder. If I make it for a 44 inch wide table I will probably have to remake the base if I want to go backward. But maybe that is unlikely. I could even just go 48 wide. Without a hutch, that would leave 4 feet on both sides, so adequate room to move about.

 

[TENdriver]

Jim, You’re clearly being careful and thinking this through.

I’m in to period correct furniture, but willing to compromise and accommodate when there are valid reasons. Dining tables are definitely in that category of valid reasons for a different approach.

You mention plywood, but another alternative is the way Danmart77 builds his large table. Use a stable substrate and cover it with a thick beautiful veneer that will stand up to grandkids. The veneer can be anything from a very clear cherry that’s resawn from a single board and perfectly matched or a wildly figured curly or crotch. Provided you use a non commercial custom veneer. Dan probably could say more on that.

 

[JimD]

I have Woodsmith plans for a table with a hardwood veneer plywood top but am leery about the thin veneer. I am currently thinking of a plywood top only temporarily to test size. I've thought of a thicker sawn veneer, however. I don't currently have a bandsaw but I will before too long. I made a couple 5/16 thick panels for small doors on a vanity last weekend by book matching pieces of oak but I cut them on the table saw. I wouldn't want to do large pieces that way, however. It would be a way of getting a durable and potentially very attractive top. I've also successfully done this with figured maple years ago. I was building jewelry boxes for my wife and daughter and the main structure was 1/2 but the boards I bought were 13/16. My old bandsaw was not really up to cutting them down so I used the table saw. That left a piece around 1/8 thick. It was too nice to throw away so I laminated it to some solid maple and made two more boxes of the same design for the two grandmothers.

But cutting thick veneer and laminating for a big table top is probably too much for me in the forseeable future. Besides cutting the veneer laminating it to the substrate (probably plywood) would be an issue. Really would want a vacuum press for that.

More likely I will build the top of 3/4 solid wood and build up the edges to fake a thicker top. That will be a little heavier but it is something I know I can do. I can still have removable breadboard ends and a leaf on each end.

 

[Jeff]

There's lots of confusion and uncertainty about how to build the table and what the dimensions should be.

This is in your 12' x 16' dining room as you've described. Is it close to what you'll be working with? The table top is 10' l x 44" wide.

s 10' l x 44" wide.

 

[JimD]

Yes, thanks for a nice sketch. That is a very good illustration. It is not critical but the two walls without doorways are exterior walls with most of the wall covered by large windows (4 on each wall, each about 2 feet wide). The larger doorway leaks to the kitchen and the smaller one leads to a great room. But that is basically the room.

 

[Jeff]

There's also an earlier video by April Wilkerson about building the base for that table. It's not very detailed but useful enough to duplicate the general build. Her table top is 2" t black walnut.

Yes, thanks for a nice sketch. That is a very good illustration. It is not critical but the two walls without doorways are exterior walls with most of the wall covered by large windows (4 on each wall, each about 2 feet wide). The larger doorway leaks to the kitchen and the smaller one leads to a great room. But that is basically the room.

 

[Gofor]

As mentioned before, a little wider wouldn't hurt, but i would shorten it by a foot and move the legs in 15" from each end. That would give you room for four people on each side and one at each end.

 

[JimD]

When I get ready to build this I will probably get plans from Jay Bates website. I think he still has them despite the fact that April designed and built the table. They apparently collarborate.

 

[TENdriver]

As mentioned before, a little wider wouldn't hurt, but i would shorten it by a foot and move the legs in 15" from each end. That would give you room for four people on each side and one at each end.

Mark, While I agree with you about reducing the length to an 8 to 9-foot top, I’m curious how that works out to four persons per side. Even if you skip the end seating, (which you’re not) that leaves 27 inches of width per person. That seems tight even by airline standards


BTW, I would reduce the length for day-to-day use based on adding optional end boards to increase the seating back up to 10 persons whenever needed. The reduced length would leave plenty of space around the entire table and make it much more comfortable to move around in the room while people are seated.

 

[Gofor]

Mark, While I agree with you about reducing the length to an 8 to 9-foot top, I’m curious how that works out to four persons per side. Even if you skip the end seating, (which you’re not) that leaves 27 inches of width per person. That seems tight even by airline standards


BTW, I would reduce the length for day-to-day use based on adding optional end boards to increase the seating back up to 10 persons whenever needed. The reduced length would leave plenty of space around the entire table and make it much more comfortable to move around in the room while people are seated.

You might be right. Guess maybe we should call the producers of Bluebloods and find out the dimensions of their family table. It seems to sit ten people with plenty of food.

 

[TENdriver]

You might be right. Guess maybe we should call the producers of Bluebloods and find out the dimensions of their family table. It seems to sit ten people with plenty of food.

Okay, I was worried you NCarolinians weren’t getting enough to eat.