Yes , it’s a drop in . routed with a template from Woodpeckers . I have a table saw soon to be posted here, parts of which were posted in this forum . stay tuned.
Table saw opinions
- Thread starter mikeyt
- Start date
Scott summed it up pretty well. I would add there are more ways to get hurt because of the tasks and the various ways wood is passed thru or over a blade.
You can’t always see the blade. One of the common injuries is when making grooves or dados and inadvertently a thumb in the path.
So yeah there are many ways to get hurt, heck one of the worst cuts I’ve ever had was from a chisel.
If you check the ER statistics the TS is by far #1.
So it’s a personal decision. I always tell people to discuss it with your significant other and see what they say
Actually #1 is nail guns.
- Power nailers or nail guns: 37,000 emergency room visits/year
- John Deere-type Riding Lawn Mowers: 37,000 hospital visits a year
- Chain Saws: 36,000 ER visits/year
- Stationary Table Saws: 29,000 ER visits/year
- Snowblowers: 5,7000 ER Visits per year; 19 deaths recorded since 1992
- Circular or Rotary Saws: 10,600 ER cases/year
- Power Drills: 5,800
- Backhoes: Average of 38 construction fatalities a year
- Air Compression Devices: 2,400
- Wood Chippers: Average of 3 deaths a year
Vehicle deaths 40,000 so what? Sheesh we were talking about ww’ing machines.
If you don’t like SawStop don’t buy one, but don’t make up reasons not to. Let me say I was you once — till I grazed my thumb using a Kumiko sled. Took out a nice 1/8” groove 1/8” deep.
That was it for me I picked up a PCS the next day. I was fortunate it could have been tragic. 40 years experience using a table saw, BTW.
My wife’s comment was “I’m glad you got it”
Of course not. I ride a motorcycle too but I still wear a seat belt in my car because it's available.
If technology like the SawStop were available in a things like a router or band saw, I'd probably buy one of those too - provided the tools were also of great quality which the SawStop is. In fact, with Festool owning SawStop, I'm hoping they do something with the technology for other items.
Shapers and Routers are the ones that totally scare me. All tools in general you need to have a healthy respect for and understand how lower risk when using.
However, in the last 5 years on projects I have worked on I have seen:
2 deaths (falling off Bldg)
3 crushes (forklift related)
Tons of impalements of various kinds,
2 TS accidents,
dozen drill related,
a few ladder falls -one the guy knocked himself out and left hanging on the ladder when we found him,
one- rolling ac unit hitting an employee,
Couple nail gun related,
a bazillion knife and chisel accidents
A guys hand getting filleted by a piece of sheet metal (eww)
Now think of every person who has had a saw accident ..... you think they wouldn't have paid a 1000 bucks not to have it ......... just sayin
Safety starts with you thinking through what you are going to do, plan for if something goes wrong and what you would do, think before turning on or using the tool, then use the tool
I am planning on buying a saw stop after 50+ years of using a table saw without a riving knife or splitter......... Just seems worth it. I was hoping for Bosch to release their version, but seeing how the saw stop went off patent and Festool bought them, I am thinking there is more to the story why Bosch has not been perusing more aggressively.Either way, Buy once cry once.
However, in the last 5 years on projects I have worked on I have seen:
2 deaths (falling off Bldg)
3 crushes (forklift related)
Tons of impalements of various kinds,
2 TS accidents,
dozen drill related,
a few ladder falls -one the guy knocked himself out and left hanging on the ladder when we found him,
one- rolling ac unit hitting an employee,
Couple nail gun related,
a bazillion knife and chisel accidents
A guys hand getting filleted by a piece of sheet metal (eww)
Now think of every person who has had a saw accident ..... you think they wouldn't have paid a 1000 bucks not to have it ......... just sayin
Safety starts with you thinking through what you are going to do, plan for if something goes wrong and what you would do, think before turning on or using the tool, then use the tool
I am planning on buying a saw stop after 50+ years of using a table saw without a riving knife or splitter......... Just seems worth it. I was hoping for Bosch to release their version, but seeing how the saw stop went off patent and Festool bought them, I am thinking there is more to the story why Bosch has not been perusing more aggressively.Either way, Buy once cry once.
The only complaint I have with my Harvey is it is an older design and has a triple V-belt drive rather than the newer multi-rib belts. So it takes a set which is a minor nuisance changing blades. Some newer designs also have an arbor lock so you only need one wrench. As some folks use combo-blades, they may not notice, but I change blades all the time, rip, cross, and melamine. Maybe I would make the throat plate half an inch wider so my big fat paws could reach the nut easier. No saw has decent dust collection. I have some ideas but don't know when I will get to them. My older design does not even have an internal shroud. Their new one does.
On the router tables, be aware there are about three common drop-in plate sizes. So which lift/plate may decide which router table. Be aware, recently TS tables went from a standard depth of 27 inches to 29 and one at 31, so a wing table may need support and a filler strip.
Saw Stop has multiple overlapping patents, so as I understand it, they are not fully "off". Yes, I would look forward to the re-introduction of the Bosch product, but I doubt they will build a cabinet saw as that is not in their product lineup. Job site is. Personally, table top, job site, and even contractor saws scare me. Just not stable. I have had one of each which was a costly mistake.
Big industrial shops use power feed or CNC so workers hands should never be near the blade. At least they should. If I were an underwriter, I would put a HUGE premium on shops without some sort of protection. Not Big Brother, economic liability.
We are not likely to see the same technology on other tools. It is physically big and heavy. Consider not only the brake shoe, but the retraction system. I suspect some of the cost is additional liability insurance if someone does get hurt by a SS believing they won't. Big pockets theory. If it was only $500 more, they would own the entire market but as it is, they sell as many as they can make, so there is no incentive to lower the price for cabinet saws. They did not own the job site market, so that is where they are focusing now. It is a lot bigger than cabinet saws.
Let us not forget dust, and I mean fine dust. It kills. It kills a lot, just not dramatic ER stats. FWIW, I bought my drill press from the widow of a hobby woodworker who was just getting around to installing dust collection. Emphysema. A SS price premium seems small compared to the cost of my Clear View system. I even considered the Harvey Gryo system, but my shop layout made that awkward. They need to make their input moveable to any of the four surfaces on the end. Even my DC was a buy wrong path. Shop vac ( useless), Jet with a bag, adding a canister, and finally putting in a ClearView. A lot spent on the wrong tools. I am now learning we need different DC technology depending on the tool. Some tools need the higher flow, some the higher lift.
On my second planer, jointer and drill press. I wish I could make one more step up on each, but no space and can't really justify it. In stead of a Kaypex, I am improving my shooting board. I hate my Ridgid and wish I had kept my first generation Delta. It was more accurate.
All this rambling comes down to:
Buy the correct tool and explain it to you significant other once. Cheaper and safer. Or is that measure once and curse twice?
On the router tables, be aware there are about three common drop-in plate sizes. So which lift/plate may decide which router table. Be aware, recently TS tables went from a standard depth of 27 inches to 29 and one at 31, so a wing table may need support and a filler strip.
Saw Stop has multiple overlapping patents, so as I understand it, they are not fully "off". Yes, I would look forward to the re-introduction of the Bosch product, but I doubt they will build a cabinet saw as that is not in their product lineup. Job site is. Personally, table top, job site, and even contractor saws scare me. Just not stable. I have had one of each which was a costly mistake.
Big industrial shops use power feed or CNC so workers hands should never be near the blade. At least they should. If I were an underwriter, I would put a HUGE premium on shops without some sort of protection. Not Big Brother, economic liability.
We are not likely to see the same technology on other tools. It is physically big and heavy. Consider not only the brake shoe, but the retraction system. I suspect some of the cost is additional liability insurance if someone does get hurt by a SS believing they won't. Big pockets theory. If it was only $500 more, they would own the entire market but as it is, they sell as many as they can make, so there is no incentive to lower the price for cabinet saws. They did not own the job site market, so that is where they are focusing now. It is a lot bigger than cabinet saws.
Let us not forget dust, and I mean fine dust. It kills. It kills a lot, just not dramatic ER stats. FWIW, I bought my drill press from the widow of a hobby woodworker who was just getting around to installing dust collection. Emphysema. A SS price premium seems small compared to the cost of my Clear View system. I even considered the Harvey Gryo system, but my shop layout made that awkward. They need to make their input moveable to any of the four surfaces on the end. Even my DC was a buy wrong path. Shop vac ( useless), Jet with a bag, adding a canister, and finally putting in a ClearView. A lot spent on the wrong tools. I am now learning we need different DC technology depending on the tool. Some tools need the higher flow, some the higher lift.
On my second planer, jointer and drill press. I wish I could make one more step up on each, but no space and can't really justify it. In stead of a Kaypex, I am improving my shooting board. I hate my Ridgid and wish I had kept my first generation Delta. It was more accurate.
All this rambling comes down to:
Buy the correct tool and explain it to you significant other once. Cheaper and safer. Or is that measure once and curse twice?
Agreed
I would respectively disagree. Understanding the purchase decision of a potentially life-time tool is quite germane. I know I considered it at length and I have the where-with-all to have bought the PCS. One of the negatives is my understanding of electronics and it's life span. Will repairs be able to be made in 20 years? They will on my old dumb saw, but will the on the SS? I have the same reservations on the Nova drill press. No matter how sweet it seams, electronics fail and "power" electronics are on the top of the list. Inside it is a generic VCR, but proprietary software. I may hate my drill press, but it probably will still be running in 100 years.
After looking real hard at the Harvey I'm still leaning towards the Grizzly.
I don't see me using the miter guide much, I plan to build a sled or 2 so they could be set up for that. 45s and 90s make up all of my work.
It is 230 more which I could put towards the Jess Em stock guides for safety and accuracy.
Plus the added expense of adding or building a router table saved can go towards dust collection which I need.
I appreciate all the input from yall.
It is definitely nerve racking trying to decide. They are all great saws I'm just trying to find the best fit.
I don't see me using the miter guide much, I plan to build a sled or 2 so they could be set up for that. 45s and 90s make up all of my work.
It is 230 more which I could put towards the Jess Em stock guides for safety and accuracy.
Plus the added expense of adding or building a router table saved can go towards dust collection which I need.
I appreciate all the input from yall.
It is definitely nerve racking trying to decide. They are all great saws I'm just trying to find the best fit.
Well, if you have the 30A outlet, not a bad choice. Pretty sure it is a Harvey. It is the dovetail trunnion which is considered an upgrade. An advantage is the blade does not move fore and aft when you raise and lower it, so you can mark your table for dead center. New style multi-rib belt. Good.
Hint: Look at the parts diagram and you can see which saw is really which saw.
PS: Harvey makes a big deal of their fancy miter slide, but it has not reviewed that well. I do better with one from Amazon ( and a Katz-Moses stop) along with my various sleds.
Hint: Look at the parts diagram and you can see which saw is really which saw.
PS: Harvey makes a big deal of their fancy miter slide, but it has not reviewed that well. I do better with one from Amazon ( and a Katz-Moses stop) along with my various sleds.
I have a SS and even though I had a horrible experience with my 1st one (search for my post on here), once SS got things squared away, I am glad I own one.
Personally, I'd recommend the 3hp+, vs a TS with less HP.
I have 0 experience with Grizzly, Laguna, Harvey, PM, etc., so take it for what it is.
If you have any questions, regarding my experience with my SS TS, please feel free to message me.
Best of luck with your choice and whatever you do, keep making that precious sawdust!
Personally, I'd recommend the 3hp+, vs a TS with less HP.
I have 0 experience with Grizzly, Laguna, Harvey, PM, etc., so take it for what it is.
If you have any questions, regarding my experience with my SS TS, please feel free to message me.
Best of luck with your choice and whatever you do, keep making that precious sawdust!
I just went in the shop attic and found 40ft of 10/2. I need about 36ft or so. I already have the breaker from my last shop.
The universe has spoken.
The Grizzly 40th is on the way. Soon hopefully.
What are these green foam finger things you speak of?
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
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