Shark CNC - Initial cut is too deep

Bill_L

Bill
Corporate Member
I'm using Vectric VCarve Desktop and Fusion for some projects and in both cases I'm finding that the initial cut on the CNC is cutting way too deep. If I have a project starting at the bottom left corner and the first cut is in the center - it may end up cutting the wood as it makes its way to the center. My zero z is correct. I say this because by the time it's complete - the depth of the cut is exactly what had been entered in the project. I had ChatGPT review my .tap file and everything looked good. I don't believe there have been any firmware updates. This happens with ALL projects. Depending on the project - I may have to set the zero z 1/4" higher that it actually is.

Any thoughts as to what may be causing this?
 

mkepke

Mark
Senior User
Can you see this behavior in your toolpath previewer?

(I can think of a couple other scenarios, like the z-axis is zeroed off the wrong face)

-Mark
 

Echd

C
User
Is your zero from the bed or material surface?

If you are using a probe of some sort, is it calibrated correctly?
 

Stuart Kent

Stuart
Senior User
1. double check your material and/or sheet thickness, make sure it is exactly the same as the actual thickness

2. look at the CAM programs and make sure that you don't have a 'Start Depth' assigned. Ramps will have no effect on the cut depth, as it is simply traveling to the maximum assigned depth of cut over an angle rather than plunging straight in.

3. double check where you are touching off (material surface or machine bed) in the job setup. Then navigate to the CAD workspace and make sure the setup matches. Sometimes you can have a job setup where you touch off to one surface but a material setup to the opposite.

4. look further down the material setup commands and verify that your 'model in material' is at the right depth.

could be a few other issues, but most likely it is one of these.
 

Bill_L

Bill
Corporate Member
Thanks, all. Answers to some of the questions as follows:

Zero Z is set manually. Material is planed / dead flat. Position of Z is Material Surface.
Start Depth is set to 0.0 inches.
Ramp Plunge Moves is checked with a Distance of 0.3 inches.
Safe Z is set to 0.2 inches
Toolpath previewer is correct showing the first pass taking a little off.

This happens with multiple projects so this is just an example of one.
 

riggsp

Phil
Corporate Member
With your safe "Z" set at .2, and your ramp setting at .3, that indicates a .1 depth of cut into the project as it ramps...you stated that the "Z" final depth is correct on all your projects, so this takes the chance of a machine problem out of the equation...try changing your "safe Z" to a higher value ( more than .3), or turn off ramping to see if the problem goes away...It's difficult to guess what's going on without seeing the g-code or the ".crv" file
 
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mkepke

Mark
Senior User
I'm not sure what this means "Toolpath previewer is correct showing the first pass taking a little off." Do you mean the previewer is or *is not* showing the undesired behavior?

I think "Ramp Plunge Move" of 0.3" should indicate the cutter is instructed to start cutting at z=0 and increase depth of cut over a distance of 0.3 inches. But it doesn't start cutting outside/beyond the expected cut area (i.e. it doesn't start cutting 'early' - which seems to be your complaint?)

If the cutter is beginning its cut outside of the expected vector area, it sounds like you may also have a "lead in" enabled.

Worst case, share your .crv and we can probably diagnose it.

-Mark
 

Bill_L

Bill
Corporate Member
I will share my .tap file tomorrow. I had shared with ChatGPT and it did not note any issues. I was not able to tinker with the machine today.
 

Echd

C
User
I would never trust chatgpt for something that might crash with damaging consequences, be very careful asking it questions of that nature.
 

mkepke

Mark
Senior User
I will share my .tap file tomorrow. I had shared with ChatGPT and it did not note any issues. I was not able to tinker with the machine today.
A .tap file is the gcode file, right? If so, that will be less helpful than the .crv (since the .crv will show all of your toolpath settings, ramps, etc - unlike the gcode).

Would love to hear more about why/how you expected ChatGPT to be able to pick up on problems in your gcode? (That's not a criticism - I'm surprised at all the novel applications people find)

-Mark
 

chris_goris

Chris
Senior User
Bill, When was the last time you homed your machine? the Z axis, if not homed regularly, can get way out of sync. DAMHIK!. Its also very easy to see where the machine is Z zeroed to the tool tip and where the first move is.
 

Bill_L

Bill
Corporate Member
A .tap file is the gcode file, right? If so, that will be less helpful than the .crv (since the .crv will show all of your toolpath settings, ramps, etc - unlike the gcode).

Would love to hear more about why/how you expected ChatGPT to be able to pick up on problems in your gcode? (That's not a criticism - I'm surprised at all the novel applications people find)

-Mark
Hi Mark,
I used the .tap file because I'm saving that to a USB drive and that gets plugged into the unit. That's all the CNC reads. I recently subscribed to ChatGPT and pay $20 month (work related). Below was its response to my initial query. I am able to upload a picture of tool defined in VCarve and it can read / comment on it. A picture / response is below as well. I find ChatGPT much better than trying to use Google. You are able to get responses specific to the issue you are asking about and not have to click through a bunch of links. It's incredibly helpful. And I don't want to come in and ask questions of the community without doing a little homework myself.

ChatGPT Response:
From the inspection of the G-code file, I can see the initial Z-axis movements, which control the cutting depth.

Here are a few key points:

  1. Tool Description:
    • (T1 D=0.25 CR=0. - ZMIN=-0.75 - FLAT END MILL): This indicates a 0.25-inch flat end mill with a maximum depth of cut of -0.75 inches.
  2. Z-Axis Movements:
    • The first Z movement brings the tool to Z0.6 (which is above the material).
    • The next movements gradually lower the tool:
      • Z0.2, then Z0.0394, and then down to Z-0.0368 (going slightly below the surface).
    • The further movements continue going deeper incrementally, like Z-0.0407, Z-0.0446, Z-0.0482, etc., but none of these initial cuts are as deep as 1/4" (which is 0.25 inches).
At first glance, the G-code doesn’t suggest a sudden 1/4-inch cut initially. However, the file could be designed to make deeper cuts after a series of these small passes, which might be causing the issue you're experiencing.

Possible Causes:​

  • Workpiece Z-zero setting: If the CNC machine's Z-zero is not set correctly on the surface of the material, the machine may interpret an incorrect starting position, leading to deeper cuts.
  • Tool Offset or Tool Length Issue: There might be an incorrect tool offset or length setting, causing the CNC to cut deeper than intended.
To troubleshoot:

  1. Ensure the machine's Z-zero is properly set on the material surface before starting the cut.
  2. Double-check the tool length offset settings in the machine’s controller.
Let me know if you'd like help analyzing more of the code or troubleshooting the machine further!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I pasted this picture in:
1728906857665.png


ChatGPT Response:
Based on the Pocket Toolpath setup in VCarve that you shared, here are a few observations:

Key Parameters:​

  1. Cutting Depths:
    • Start Depth (D): 0.0 inches – This is correct, meaning the cut starts at the surface of the material.
    • Cut Depth (C): 0.1 inches – This indicates that the tool will cut 0.1 inches deep, which seems reasonable depending on your material and the design. However, if your CNC is cutting much deeper (like 1/4 inch), this suggests that the Z-axis zero might not be correctly set on your CNC machine, or the machine is not respecting this setting.
  2. Tool:
    • The tool defined is the Whiteside (RU2075) 0.25" Dia Up Spiral. This is consistent with what you previously showed, and the tool seems appropriate for the cut.
  3. Passes:
    • You have set 2 passes. With the cut depth of 0.1 inches, this should mean each pass cuts approximately 0.05 inches (half the total depth), which is very reasonable for controlled cutting.
  4. Ramp Plunge Moves:
    • Ramp Distance: 0.3 inches – This is a good setup for easing the tool into the material and reducing stress on the bit by ramping into the cut gradually.

Potential Issues to Consider:​

  • Z-Axis Zero Setup: Even though your settings are correct in VCarve, if the Z-axis zero is set incorrectly on the machine (perhaps it’s set too low), it could be starting the cut deeper than intended. Double-check the physical Z-zero setup on your machine before running the program.
  • Toolpath Simulation: Before exporting the G-code, run a toolpath simulation in VCarve to verify the depth of the cuts and ensure there are no unintended deeper plunges.
  • Tool Offset in CNC Controller: If there’s a mismatch in the tool offset on your CNC machine, the machine may cut deeper than programmed. This can happen if the tool length or offset values in the machine controller are incorrect.

Recommendations:​

  • Ensure the machine’s Z-zero is accurately set to the surface of your material.
  • Check the tool offset settings on the machine to match what is in VCarve.
  • Try a small test cut to confirm the machine is following the 0.1" cut depth in 2 passes as defined here.
If everything checks out in VCarve and the machine is still cutting too deep, the problem is likely on the machine-side settings.

Let me know if you'd like further assistance with any of these steps!
 

Bill_L

Bill
Corporate Member
Bill, When was the last time you homed your machine? the Z axis, if not homed regularly, can get way out of sync. DAMHIK!. Its also very easy to see where the machine is Z zeroed to the tool tip and where the first move is.
Hi Chris, Not sure I follow this. I don't use the CNC that frequently and each time I end up with a new 0 X, Y, and Z position. It all depends on where I put piece of wood.
 

chris_goris

Chris
Senior User
Hi Chris, Not sure I follow this. I don't use the CNC that frequently and each time I end up with a new 0 X, Y, and Z position. It all depends on where I put piece of wood.
youre confusing home ( machine goes to it xyz zero mechanical limits ) with the origin point. the origin is your program xyz and can be put anywhere in the machines limits of motion
 
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riggsp

Phil
Corporate Member
Have to ask...What machine do you have ?...I'm guessing, since your g-code is a ".tap" file, it's a Next Wave machine...if so, then you don't have limit switches and no "home" position, just "X" and "Y" set to the corner of your part, and "Z" touchoff to the top of your part or machine bed.
 
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riggsp

Phil
Corporate Member
Still would help to see the actual ".tap" file rather than comments from ChatGTP to see what's happening.
 

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