Share your secrets on small boxes

[TracyP]

I am getting ready to try my luck at some simple boxes again. I know that all of the master woodworkers here can do boxes with their eyes closed. But I hate to admit that I have a terrible time getting a small box to look and fit together nicely. I have done quite a few much more complicated projects with a good deal of success. But this simple box thing whips my butt. So feel free to share your secrets, PLEASE:eusa_pray:eusa_pray. I am sure that I am over complicating the whole box thing. I am talking four sides, a bottom, and a top:BangHead::BangHead:.

 

[Joe Scharle]

Well, you're right! Boxes can be amazingly tricky, and with so many styles and variations I couldn't possibly come up with a blanket answer. But it might help if you could pose a specific Q.

For example: A blanket chest could have one side shorter by 1/8" and be un-noticeable, however a small box won't tolerate .0001 difference.

 

[TracyP]

I am talking about smaller boxes. The kind that the wife has on the night stand to hold her daily jewelery in. Very small boxes, typically four by ten, or so.:eusa_thin

 

[froglips]

Well, you are going to need some new tools.

Jim

 

[FredP]

AKyurassy and fine hardware!:icon_thum oh and plenty of patience! kinda like this?:rotflm:

 

[WoodWrangler]

Well, you are going to need some new tools.

Jim

Exactly.:gar-La;

 

[TracyP]

AKyurassy and fine hardware!:icon_thum oh and plenty of patience! kinda like this?:rotflm:

That's what mine look like, kinda!!

 

[Joe Scharle]

Fred, I've seen your website Nice BTW. But this looks like an example from your 'Woodstock' period! PS, I burned mine!
:rotflm:

 

[boxxmaker]

I will do my best :icon_scra Hmmmm now where I? OH yes.I usually make a whole bunch at a time and what I do is measure the board to the total length of the box you want to make.Then set your TS blade to about 1/8" high and set your fence about 1/4" from the blade,then cut a groove along one side of the board.This is where the bottom panel will fit in.Then cut the two ends to what ever depth you want,example if you want a 4x8" box,cut two 4" pieces.The heigth of the box will be what ever the width of the board is.Then cut dado's on the end of each board,cut them 50-50,so that when you connect the two pieces they will fit flush.Tape all 4 pieces together,then measure your bottom panel.I use 1/8 plywood.Then lay out all the parts in order outside up and tape them together again(take the other tape off)then glue up the edges where they will fit together.I just put a bit of glue in the groove for the bottom panel.Then wrap the panels around the bottom panel and if you have the end joints cut flush then all you have to do is tape it together,but if you want you can clamp it,but be sure and make sure the box is squared up when you clamp it.As for the type of lid you want to put on it, there are to many to discribe,so if you get that far and need a suggestion,let me know.
Hope this helps,nothin to it :icon_thum
Ken

PS wipe the glue off the inside with a damp towel after you get it all set.

 

[TracyP]

I will do my best :icon_scra Hmmmm now where I? OH yes.I usually make a whole bunch at a time and what I do is measure the board to the total length of the box you want to make.Then set your TS blade to about 1/8" high and set your fence about 1/4" from the blade,then cut a groove along one side of the board.This is where the bottom panel will fit in.Then cut the two ends to what ever depth you want,example if you want a 4x8" box,cut two 4" pieces.The heigth of the box will be what ever the width of the board is.Then cut dado's on the end of each board,cut them 50-50,so that when you connect the two pieces they will fit flush.Tape all 4 pieces together,then measure your bottom panel.I use 1/8 plywood.Then lay out all the parts in order outside up and tape them together again(take the other tape off)then glue up the edges where they will fit together.I just put a bit of glue in the groove for the bottom panel.Then wrap the panels around the bottom panel and if you have the end joints cut flush then all you have to do is tape it together,but if you want you can clamp it,but be sure and make sure the box is squared up when you clamp it.As for the type of lid you want to put on it, there are to many to discribe,so if you get that far and need a suggestion,let me know.
Hope this helps,nothin to it :icon_thum
Ken

PS wipe the glue off the inside with a damp towel after you get it all set.

Thanks Ken. This post should help a lot.

 

[FredP]

It just so happens I spent the morning making one so if you look here in a few minits I will post some progress pics. I also turned one yesterday and made a lid for it. I'll post pics of that as well. give me a few min......:icon_thum

 

[TracyP]

It just so happens I spent the morning making one so if you look here in a few minits I will post some progress pics. I also turned one yesterday and made a lid for it. I'll post pics of that as well. give me a few min......:icon_thum

Anxiously awaiting this post!:eusa_danc

 

[Charles Lent]

The first thing you need to know is that there is nothing simple about making a small box.

Accuracy and squareness is everything. Deciding what size and then what type of corner joints to use comes next. The smaller the box, the more accurate the measurements and saw cuts need to be, or it will turn out looking something like Fred's box (sorry Fred). If your box will have a lid, plan on making it as part of the box, and then run it through the table saw to separate the top from the box later. When you do this, shim and tape the saw cuts back together as you do them to keep the saw blade from binding in the cut on the opposite side. Most of the smaller non-jewelry, utility type boxes that I make use box joints for the corners (learning how to make box joints well is a whole separate project by itself). For these smaller utility boxes (less than about 12x12X8 that are made from 1/4-3/8 stock, and won't need to hold more than about 10 lbs, I usually just glue 3/32-1/8 plywood on the top and bottom and then flush trim the edges to the top and bottom of the sides of the box. The plywood contacts long grain on all four sides, so there's no need to allow for wood movement. Fancier boxes get the groove for the bottom the plywood or solid bottom fitted into it. The top may be treated the same, or some other fancier joinery used to hold it on, especially if it's solid wood and not plywood.

Gluing box joints together also requires a learning curve. Blue tape the boards along the base of the fingers so that glue will not get on the board surfaces, especially on the inside of the box. The outside glue is easy to scrape or sand off, but not the inside. Clamp the joints together very carefully to avoid bowing the sides inward from too much clamp pressure and double check the box for square by carefully taking diagonal measurements on both the top and bottom of the box. Use a diagonal clamp or light taps with a mallet to force it square before the glue sets up.
After it's dry and out of the clamps I use a flush trim bit in the router table to trim the box joint ends smooth.

An old woodworker showed me how to put the sides of the box being glued into a bigger box and use shims and 2 screw clamps in spreader fashion to force it into one corner of the larger box. The larger box then squared and held the smaller box joints tight until they were dry. The shims were used to keep the smaller box's glue joints from touching and sticking to the inside of the larger box. I've done it this way, but usually just carefully clamp the outside of the box in both directions.

Does all this make sense? It's a bit difficult to explain. :icon_scra

Charley

 

[Bas]

Small boxes are more difficult because everything is more intricate. I made a few boxes last year, I found it helped to practice on something slightly larger. So I build a 12x8 box to hold router bits. Figured out the joinery, cutting off the lid, routing the groove for the bottom etc. Then repeated that on a 8x4 box. That helped quite a bit.

But you do need a few new tools

 

[CrealBilly]

thin wood and lots of contact cement

 

[JohnW]

WOW...Nice work Fred & Jeff. Best you've done so far. :wink_smil

Tracy,
For small boxes used for knick knacks and jewelry I like to use boards approx 3/8" to 1/2" thick and join using mitered corners. You can cut these many different ways but on small parts like a board no wider than 4" I do them on the table saw. Tilt the saw to 45 deg and then cut each corner so that one side runs through the right side of the blade and the other to the left. This cancels out any inaccuracies in the blade tilt and the corners will come out at exactly 45 deg. But, the only way to get a good square box is with STOP BLOCKS to ensure that each piece is exactly the same length as its opposing side.

Before cutting, label each piece of the 4 sides. (front, back, rt side, & lf side) (inside & outside) (top & bottom) This will enable you to run each piece through the cut on the proper side of the blade....and on the proper side of the board.

Before tilting blade, cut each side about 1" longer than final length with blade at 90 deg. Then tilt blade and use a cross cut sled or miter gage when cutting the 45's. I use a maple board clamped to the miter gage making sure the board extends beyond the blade when pushed on either the right or left side slot. This board will act as a zero clearance backer, hold your work pieces steady & square, and you can clamp a stop block on it to get accurate length cuts.

Other hints:

If your blade is not square to the miter slots you'll get some burn marks on the cut.

Small boxes might not need it but...you can add keys to the mitered joints for extra strength. Or add them for the look.

Before gluing up, cut any grooves or dados required to hold the bottom and top.

Use band clamps for mitered corners. I use strap clamps which are MUCH cheaper than the band clamps purchased form a wood specialty store. Just put something between the work piece and the metal buckle to protect from marking (which can be sanded out anyway)

Don't make just one box. When prepping lumber for the sides, make enough for at least 2 boxes. It only takes a few more min to make two instead of one and you MIGHT make a mistake and need the extra. DAMHIKT

Tops can be done many different ways.....figure out how/what type of top you are using before cutting any lumber. You might need to cut rebates or make other cuts to accomodate the top and these cuts need to be done BEFORE gluing sides together.

Consider making the top by just slicing the top (approx 1") off the box after it's glued up. This way the top and bottom grain will be a perfect match and the top & bottom will be the same size.....or at least it better be.

Do not let Fred or Jeff help you.

 

[CaptnA]

That's what mine look like, kinda!!
__________________

Tracy, if you're making them this well - I'm coming to YOU for advice! :notworthy::notworthy:

I didn't know they had so many sides, a top, AND a bottom!!:rotflm:

 

[Makinsawdust]

My tip is: if you don't try to make them square then they will come out right every time. I made this one two or three weeks ago just as an art item.

 

[Canuck]

Tracy,

Joe Scharle put me onto this site (Eaglelake Woodworking) and here is a cool video showing the build of a keepsake box that may be worth trying.

http://www.eaglelakewoodworking.com/post/Keepsake-Box-Cocobolo.aspx

They used Cocobolo, but I think that I may try it with a more common domestic wood. :wsmile:

Wayne

(The video is free ...... for now anyway.)

 

[Matt Furjanic]

You say you are having trouble getting your boxes to "fit together nicely." Probably the easiest way to get the box top to match the bottom is to make the box in one piece (top, bottom and four sides - construct in one unit) then cut the top from the bottom. This ensures that they are the same size, and if the box is a bit out-of-square, it will still fit together. Also, the wood grain will match.
You can cut the unit on a table saw, or on a band saw. I find a band saw easier as the kerf is smaller and you can cut a wider box in one pass on the band saw.
I would recommend a book: "Box-Making Basics" by David M. Freedman." It will help you make boxes similar to this one I made: www.inlaybanding.com/box66.html If you cannot find the book, I have one I will loan to you. Matt...