Q&A - Science Behind Wood Coatings

jfynyson

Jeremy
User
Hey,
If you're like me and have been very confused or overwhelmed when trying to first learn about/understand wood coatings then know that I have a great opportunity coming my way next week (1/23/2020). I'll be having lunch with someone that is an expert the wood coatings industry and can explain the science behind it. He'll be there to answer any questions I have as a courtesy. I'm a scientist and love to try and grasp what's actually going on in different wood finishing formulations. Why certain solvents, resins, etc are used and why others are not used in certain situations.

I took the time a couple years ago to lay out in more clear terms (bullet pt format) to help me visual the differences, benefits, and trade offs of different types of top coat/finish. Sure, there are tons of books and other tutorials on this topic that one could look up but I just wanted it all in one easy/quick guide visual format. This up coming meeting will be for me to understand what I've not easily found in my brief non-exhaustive research.

My Ask To You
  • I would like to take any questions you would like to know about any wood coatings to this meeting and get answers to your curious questions if possible. So, post to this thread between now and 1/23/2020 and I'll see if he has the answers to our questions. I'll post the answers back on this thread once completed (assuming we get answers to all of them).

Thanks,
Jeremy Finison
 

Willemjm

Willem
Corporate Member
Thanks Jeremy.

My question:

How many professional shops have switched to water based coatings?

I have ventured that way many times, but simply cannot afford the extra time it takes to wait for drying between coats, the more difficult scuff sanding of the first coat and the care one has to take with laying down correct film thickness without experiencing micro bubbles.

My typical process is sand to 220, spray a seal coat of solvent based conversion varnish, handle the item after 15 minutes and a very light scuff sand with 320 grit 30 minutes later. A final coat follows, can be handled 15 minutes later and I am done. That is one hour maximum for a professional extremely durable finish.

I cannot get even close to that with water based and have tried most of them.
 

Oka

Casey
Corporate Member
My experience with all the low voc is the coating thickness, like you it takes too long to dry and it is too thin for the work.

THe only exception I have found is the 2 part water based epoxy coatings, they seem to do ok. I guess I am just old school
 

smallboat

smallboat
Corporate Member
Jeremy- any chance you can share the short form you have already? I'd be interested if you don't mind. Perhaps we could include it here as an article.
 

jfynyson

Jeremy
User
Jeremy- any chance you can share the short form you have already? I'd be interested if you don't mind. Perhaps we could include it here as an article.
I can certainly create a thread with my information. I would like for this to be a quick ready reference for folks as a high level non-exhaustive "article" so I'll post it as text but would prefer to have our experts on this forum to chime in edit it (simplify it, correct anything I may have incorrect but not to make it complicated) prior to creating it as an official "article".

I'll post this after I meet with this gentleman on 1/23/2020 to answer many of the questions I have ready for him.
 

jfynyson

Jeremy
User
I want to give an update here. I met with my contact today and learned a lot. However, his focus of course was primarily the marketing side of the industrial coatings industry rather than what we typically see in the hobbyist market. He will take a look at my page and a half list of rapid fire questions as well as review my high level overview of wood finishing (to make sure I'm not misstating anything) and will be responding in the next few weeks.

Once I get those responses back I'll post them all here. I'd prefer we take a few weeks and get some of our forum professionals & those in the know from many years experience to weigh in to help edit. Then we can create a PDF "article" for the forum.
 

Skymaster

Jack
Senior User
RE water based coatings, I have tried numerous times to use them and all experiences with them have been bad. triple work, poor results, poor covering etc. I am old school also, Lacquer, poly, lacquer based stains work great :}:}:}:}
 

Pop Golden

Pop
Corporate Member
I know a person with a degree in furniture mfg. his specialty was finishing. He and his father make very high end custom furniture. This is his formula: 1 - boiled linseed oil to pop the grain (they add a small amount of poly to speed up drying), 2 - Multiple coats of shellac (between 6 and 8)(he uses 2# cut dewaxed)(light sanding between coats), 3 - on all horizontal surfaces several coats of solvent based poly. 4 - light wax and polish. I have gone to this when finishing wood for indoor use. For out door I use Helmsman outdoor poly. I've never used water based finishes too much advice like Skymaster's have convinced me that water based is not a good option.

Pop :cool:
 

jfynyson

Jeremy
User
Following up to say that I have had my research reviewed, other thoughts added by a couple of industry experts and Q&A completed by a couple of industry experts and am ready to post this on the forum for review by our forum experts for final edits prior to posting as a formal article / white paper.

Once we've had our team review let's get this on the Finishing Forum section as formal reference document.

My Ask To You
  • Let me know how best to post this for review / edits....best to private messenger a MS Word document (is this possible through this forum ?)
  • Who all do you feel on this forum needs to review / edit ?
  • I'll also ask that anyone with a broad knowledge of epoxy coatings and the relatively new to US markets hard wax oil finishes to add their two cents to this. We'll need to add them to the Acknowledgements & Contributions section as well.
  • How is a Finishing Article or white paper best posting / stored on this forum for a reference ? What format & how do I add this once all edits/reviews are complete ?

Many thanks,
Jeremy Finison
 

Grimmy2016

Board of Directors, Development Director
Scott
Staff member
Corporate Member
Jeremy- any chance you can share the short form you have already? I'd be interested if you don't mind. Perhaps we could include it here as an article.
@jfynyson - As we continue to develop our .com site (Click HOME) I would love an opportunity to take your notes/article and turn it into a blog post for the site. It would really help set our group up as experts in the field which helps us with engaging new users and driving traffic to the site... all-in-all we look at it as an opportunity to continue building our forum. Please let me know if you are up for this and I can work with you to get it onto the site. Thanks
 

jfynyson

Jeremy
User
@jfynyson - As we continue to develop our .com site (Click HOME) I would love an opportunity to take your notes/article and turn it into a blog post for the site. It would really help set our group up as experts in the field which helps us with engaging new users and driving traffic to the site... all-in-all we look at it as an opportunity to continue building our forum. Please let me know if you are up for this and I can work with you to get it onto the site. Thanks
Just let me know specifics on what you need me to do & specifically where in order to get my notes uploaded and I'll do it right now
 

Grimmy2016

Board of Directors, Development Director
Scott
Staff member
Corporate Member
You can email them to me at development.director at ncwoodworker.net. If they are in an article format vs bullets that would be most helpful. If you have images, or know where to find them, of examples to go along with the info I can drop those in when I load them onto the site.

Thanks!
 

jfynyson

Jeremy
User
You can email them to me at development.director at ncwoodworker.net. If they are in an article format vs bullets that would be most helpful. If you have images, or know where to find them, of examples to go along with the info I can drop those in when I load them onto the site.

Thanks!
Sent for your review.
 

smallboat

smallboat
Corporate Member
Scott/Jeremy- After the text content has been sorted out, if illustrations would help maybe we can get suitable photos from members here. Of course it would be nice if we can verify that they are showing the materials and finishes we are illustrating.
 

Grimmy2016

Board of Directors, Development Director
Scott
Staff member
Corporate Member
Scott/Jeremy- After the text content has been sorted out, if illustrations would help maybe we can get suitable photos from members here. Of course it would be nice if we can verify that they are showing the materials and finishes we are illustrating.
Thats a great idea. I had asked Jeremy in my response for pics, but if we can surface some from this group that would be a great way to tie it back to the forums! Thanks!
 

jfynyson

Jeremy
User
Not sure if pics are warranted for this type of article or not. I do reference a few commonly sourced branded products such as Minwax, GF, Deft, Watco, Tried & True, etc but not sure if it fits in this article. Each brand typically has extensive product lines that could cover several categories in this article. I'll let the collective here decide if pics are needed once they've seen the content layout.
 

jfynyson

Jeremy
User
Just following up to note that Scott has now posted the article for your enjoyment. Also note that we'd still like some subject matter experts to fill in info for the epoxy and hardwax oil sections. Thanks to Scott for editing / uploading this hopefully useful tool ! This I feel is a good supplement to Bill's article, which you should couple to this one if you've not already read his.

Bill's article - "My Finishing Process: A Refresher for All" - Post | NCWoodworker.com
My article "Wood Finishes Explained" - Post | NCWoodworker.com
 

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