Pondering... 'Tool sale - whole bundle'?

[Henry W]

I have often wondered how effective a packaged or bundled tool sale really is. I regularly see posts of some number of tools and with the statement that seller wants to sell only as a package. I understand the preference, but wonder if it gets in the way of actually selling the items. I have taken a bundel of left over wood in order to get that one piece I liked and wanted, but I have not bought a package deal (can fit more into my shop).

Package sales are of course 'waaaay' easier than dealing with multiple buyers, absolutely. My SO would do that to get rid of everything and the buyer will have to pick through a lot of stuff to find my Domino...

For potential buyers I imagine the appeal is if the total package price is significantly less that the sum of market values of individual items. If the buyer has the space (to store), time, energy, and willingness to resell individual items they can possibly recoup all their out-of-pocket costs and in essence get the tool they wanted essentially 'free' (except for time and energy and risk). The downside of having to transport and likely get rid of two old Radial arm saws and a rusty TS etc is significant.

Another set of potential package buyers COULD be younger or less experienced folks looking to get into the hobby or business. Two factors i see here
- Except perhaps for a recently retired person who might have the capital, younger buyers do not usually have enough 'hobby money' for a package price (I did not 30 years ago, and still may not). Younger or inexperienced potential are also less likely, I think, to understand that an old lathe or BS may be a far better tool than what is seen in the aisles of a big box store.
- In the case of younger buyers, it seems that furniture style trends require slab flattening and epoxy hole filling equipemnt. This is not a jointer/planer/ table saw but a track saw, a router flattening or CNC set up, (and lots of epoxy).

This NCWW audience is primarily (not exclusively) more experienced woodworkers that have a general tool set and may be wanting to supplement or upgrade specific pieces. The NCWW FB page users (overlaps with the website users, in part) has more inexperienced users posting; these users are I think far less likely to have an established tool set.

So if there is a question in my ponderings, I guess it is "Can anyone (anecdotally?) support the effectiveness of a package or bundled tool sale?" How far was the total package discounted beyond a '50% for used tools' number? Was the buyer a dedicated reseller (plenty of people out there buying pallets of Amazon or HD returns) or an individual user who needed/wanted most of the package?

 

[charlessenf]

Put your package together and photograph and document everything involved.

Advertise it heavily and include an indication that you will accept Cash In Hand offers for the entire lot ONLY.

Then, if there isn't any interest in any of the Markets you advertised in, staart breaking it up.

Don't forget, "it's Capitalism Jake"and "Past performance is no indication of future performance."
PS What's an Inline spoiler?

 

[bs7584]

Great question. I am always looking for a deal and I purchased all my tools both new and used for additions or upgrades to my collection as single items as I needed or wanted them. Yes, older tools may be better built but often lack safety features and instructions that I worry a newbie may need. I guess I don’t have the energy or time to recondition and potentially re-sell a bunch of tools/machines so I generally avoid batch sales. But, you won’t know until you try it, there may be a buyer, never say never, good luck!

 

[Echd]

I suspect they're more likely to get someone who is willing to part out the lot and sell it individually. I doubt many individuals who are completely green are looking to buy a full suite of tools, and anyone with just a little probably won't want or have space for the duplicates.

The best bet is probably to have an auction company handle it if it is any quantity of items, or a consignment seller if it's not enough for an auction on its own.

You're right about some of the tools for instance... I think there must be more of those old craftsman RAS and matching vintage rustomatic tablesaws out there than there are people. I've been offered them for free more times than I can count just to have them hauled away from an older woodworker.

 

[rcarmac]

I have tired to help a deceased woodworkers family sell of his tools as a group. It wasn’t very successful. It seemed like he had a couple of decent tools people wanted, some old craftsman stuff that nobody seemed to want and then stuff that was frankly only of value to the original owner. I think you need to honest about the quality of the tools if you are doing a package and understand it is going to take some more time to sell it as a package with a higher $. With some of the packages that I have seen, people are trying to get you to take the trash with the good stuff. I think it might be easier and quicker to sell individually but you might have some pieces you just can’t get rid of.

 

[Henry W]

Great question. I am always looking for a deal and I purchased all my tools both new and used for additions or upgrades to my collection as single items as I needed or wanted them. Yes, older tools may be better built but often lack safety features and instructions that I worry a newbie may need. I guess I don’t have the energy or time to recondition and potentially re-sell a bunch of tools/machines so I generally avoid batch sales. But, you won’t know until you try it, there may be a buyer, never say never, good luck!

I suspect they're more likely to get someone who is willing to part out the lot and sell it individually. I doubt many individuals who are completely green are looking to buy a full suite of tools, and anyone with just a little probably won't want or have space for the duplicates.

The best bet is probably to have an auction company handle it if it is any quantity of items, or a consignment seller if it's not enough for an auction on its own.

You're right about some of the tools for instance... I think there must be more of those old craftsman RAS and matching vintage rustomatic tablesaws out there than there are people. I've been offered them for free more times than I can count just to have them hauled away from an older woodworker.

Agree. These are just musings - I had not thought of auction companies - forgot that avenue entirely.
Just to be clear - I am not trying to sell off anything, certainly not in a package. 'Culling the herd' might be a good idea (not specifically ww tools, but hand tools, wrench sets, etc).

 

[Henry W]

I have tired to help a deceased woodworkers family sell of his tools as a group. It wasn’t very successful. It seemed like he had a couple of decent tools people wanted, some old craftsman stuff that nobody seemed to want and then stuff that was frankly only of value to the original owner. I think you need to honest about the quality of the tools if you are doing a package and understand it is going to take some more time to sell it as a package with a higher $. With some of the packages that I have seen, people are trying to get you to take the trash with the good stuff. I think it might be easier and quicker to sell individually but you might have some pieces you just can’t get rid of.

Exactly my thoughts - except you would have deal with multiple individual buyers and not everyone wants to do that.

 

[Wiley's Woodworks]

My personal experience: I bought the basis for my woodworking shop as a package deal. I advertised in Craigslist "Want To Buy--Entire Woodworking Shop". I further stated I would purchase everything wall-to-wall and even sweep up the sawdust after everything was loaded. Over 2+ months I got about 10 responses and actually went out and inspected 3 until I found what I was looking for--quality machinery and tools that were lightly used by a serious hobbyist.

Both sides of the transaction are going to have to make concessions to make this deal. For the seller:

• This is the wrong way to maximize the selling price.
• It's neutral if you want your decades long investment and passion to "go to the right person who will enjoy and appreciate it". Scavengers and resellers are everywhere.
• It's the right way if you want to dispose of a disorganized conglomeration with the least amount of hassle and time spent.

For the buyer:

• It's the right way if you want to assemble a working shop quickly without running all over 10 counties for over a year picking up tools one at a time.
• It's the right way to get a large quantity of tools in one fell swoop.
• It's the right way if you want to pay a lower price for what you actually wind up using, but a coin toss depending on how much you use or later on decide to upgrade or have to replace.
• It's neutral on the overall quality level unless you buy a high end/high quality shop, and that seller will know it is a high end/high quality shop and will price it accordingly.
• It's the wrong way if your shop space is limited, and you can't store all the stuff you don't start using immediately. DAMHIKT.
• It's the wrong way if you can't hire a crew and lift gate truck to move everything, unload it, bring it to your shop, and set it in its new permanent location in your shop in one day. If you're buying a hardline dust collection setup, figure on half a day just to dismantle it. You have to factor in this expense in your overall budget.
• It's the wrong way if you spend your entire budget in the initial bulk purchase because you will be spending money immediately to buy things that aren't in the package deal.
• It's the wrong way if you don't have some mechanical aptitude to set up and tune your machinery.

Overall, buying an entire shop wall-to-wall was a good decision for me. In hindsight this was because I bought the right shop and didn't fall for paying a low price for mediocre tools. It made me a "woodworker" instantly and got me off to a great start in my new hobby. Filling in the blanks as I progressed has cost as much money as the original purchase, and I haven't sold enough of the stuff I don't use to buy a Festool.

BTW your "50% for used tools number" is an old rule of thumb that is no longer accurate or usable. If a knowledgeable seller is offering a quality tool, it won't be 1/2 price. Just follow the For Sale Listings in this forum for proof of this. If the tool needs repair or parts, paying 30% of retail is paying too much; sometimes paying 10% is paying too much.

 

[Henry W]

BTW your "50% for used tools number" is an old rule of thumb that is no longer accurate or usable. If a knowledgeable seller is offering a quality tool, it won't be 1/2 price. Just follow the For Sale Listings in this forum for proof of this. If the tool needs repair or parts, paying 30% of retail is paying too much; sometimes paying 10% is paying too much.

Wiley - Absolutely loved your analysis - seems spot on.

Pricing tools is about as complicated as buying used tools and understanding their condition (and hence price). The current thread on refurbing the 3PH planer for $400 is a great illustrtation of that (thread title is "Bridgewood planer 22 inch, 3ph - $400 (Mineral, VA) GONE." Not something I am likely to ever undertake, and hence unlikely to ever buy something like this (especially a 3 PH tool).

I have almost exclusively bought used floor model tools individually and my portable power tools are a mix of new purchase and used. Most hand tools (not powered) have been new. In ourchasing used I always look for usable condition. I am not in the refurb machinery stage of my life (and may never be). If I want to tool it is likely that I want to use it now.

 

[Echd]

Some brands certainly seem to hold value better than others. Sometimes if a tool is by all appearances new, even a small discount on a gently used one may be better than paying tax and shipping. I'm kicking around a nicer lathe and I'm think of spending anywhere from $1500-4000... and on the upper end of that, over $500 would have to be tacked on for shipping, and another $300 for tax! For a guy like me who just likes to make sawdust in the garage, I'd be lying if I said those secondary costs haven't gotten me to empty my shopping cart a time or two and go back to biding my time waiting for a used one.

I was tickled pink to pay about 80% of retail for my domino. I would not pay 80% of retail for, say, any old miter saw or router or whatnot. It certainly pays to know the market for a particular item, and some things come up for sale frequently or relatively inexpensively as they were common items people outgrow, or they lack a now thought of as must-have feature. That said to me at least, 80% is about the point where for many items I seriously consider buying new over used.

That said, were I purchasing a whole shop, either for resale or use, I would expect a healthier discount than buying a la carte overall, just for the frustration of it. I'm certainly no stranger to buying a lot at an overall decent price just to get a couple of things I actually wanted.

 

[Mike Davis]

I never had and probably now wouldn't part with enough money to buy a whole shop bundle.
After rebuilding several bandsaws I finally bought a new Rikon 14" bandsaw and wish I had the money much earlier in life.
What a pleasure this one tool has made working in my shop.
Several lathes of similar experience then bought big old iron.
My lathe is my best 'used tool' bargain, it will last well beyond my lifetime.
The delta table saw was and still is a compromise, it works and it does 99% of my needs with some constraints.
All else is consumables and will probably be taken to the dump when I'm done.

 

[Henry W]

I was tickled pink to pay about 80% of retail for my domino. I would not pay 80% of retail for, say, any old miter saw or router or whatnot. It certainly pays to know the market for a particular item, and some things come up for sale frequently or relatively inexpensively as they were common items people outgrow, or they lack a now thought of as must-have feature. That said to me at least, 80% is about the point where for many items I seriously consider buying new over used.

That said, were I purchasing a whole shop, either for resale or use, I would expect a healthier discount than buying a la carte overall, just for the frustration of it. I'm certainly no stranger to buying a lot at an overall decent price just to get a couple of things I actually wanted.

Agreed on all of it.
I was never fast enough to get any sort of a deal on a Domino, and it is the most expensive tool in my shop. My used and individually purchased TS/BS/DP together barely cost a bit more than my Domino (not accounting for inflation etc).

 

[bob vaughan]

I know a man that says he's considering telling his family to get a scrapper to come and take every machine and tool to the scrap yard. When asked why, he made the point that he didn't want his family to be subjected to the vulgarity of low ballers traipsing through the property. He does have a valid point to consider.

 

[Wilsoncb]

I can see both sides depending on the situation. I think the biggest factor has to be the tool mix. Most estate sales have one or two decent high end tools and a bunch of crap that is in rough shape and was never a decent tool even when new. I’m always amazed by how badly some people treat their tools. To be fair many probably had health issues and were not able to do anything about it.

One thing I think is often overlooked are the smaller not so obvious tools that are valuable. For example, decent machinists measuring tools (Starrett vs Ironton). Router bits, you can find a bunch of common shapes cheap, but a Freud door joint set would be a good find and might end up getting thrown in on a bundle deal. Decent sharpening stones and chisels are expensive and would get more money if sold separately…but might take longer to find a buyer who might rather buy new.

 

[blackhawk]

Wiley summed it up pretty well. You are definitely not going to maximize the selling price when selling an entire shop. To sell an entire shop at once is going to have to be a great deal for someone. The buyer is going to be looking at it from the perspective of how do I buy this as cheap as possible, so that I can keep the tools that I really want and sell the rest to help pay for what I wanted to keep. (That was a run on sentence!)

 

[Douglas Robinson]

When I lived in NC I helped three widows sell there husband's shops. Many of you may remember these sales. I pieced out all of these sales. What made it easier is my connection here. through Klingspor and membership in Oneway Facebook group. Access to an interested market was my leverage (both for interested buyers and for help when I needed it). I priced everything. Where I am now it would be harder as I am not as connected to the WWing community.

A Many of the package deals are over-priced and the truly interested audience is small.

 

[bob vaughan]

A deceased friend's rather extensive shop was auctioned off by an on-line auction company. The auction staff took nearly two months of cataloging and photographing. The widow later commented that while everything eventually got carried off, the return was not what she had hoped for. I watched the auction and sadly saw that there were some great bargains to be had. I think that the bottom line for an on-line auction dispersal wasn't an easy route.