Planer stand project begun and some issues

[Bryan S]

Took some extra (and much needed) time off this weekend to begin a planer stand based on plans from Shopnotes vol 16 issue 91.



The case is made from some birch ply from the BORG that I had, but after looking over some of the better quality ply at The Hardwood Store no more Borg ply for me! I will be trimming the face with maple and a back that is recessed flush covering the lower shelves for stability to prevent racking. I also will be installing 2 flip up sides for infeed and outfeed support. Will most likely finish with an oil. Dry fit for the most part is good with one problem area.

Now for some of the issues.

Is ther any reason I cant start and do the glue up in sections? Starting with the 2 middle shelves then glueing in the back and lower shelf/support and last glueing the top in. I am not very profecient at glueups yet. I am still limited on my clamp supply and have pretty much blown my tool budget out of the water over the last few weeks.



You can see a fair amount of tear out when the grooves were cut (left pic). I used a set of 6" Oldam high high speed steel stacked dado blades I purchased several years ago and have never used before.

Will a quality set of carbide dado blades help this tearout?

I also used the dados to rabbit the shelves. Would I have gotten a better cut with a rabiting router bit set?
The dado setup for this step was very time consuming being my tablesaw and fence are not of the best quality.

The last pic on the right shows one groove that is not a great fit. That shelf was rabbited the same as the top shelf. I got a little ahead of myself and made that cut before I set up for the lower 3 shelf grooves

Any sugestions will be welcome.

 

[sapwood]

I have a suggestion Bryan. Give yourself a pat on the back :icon_thum
The stand looks sturdy and I assume the tearouts will be covered. I'm looking forward to your progress as I'm trying to kludge together a multi-purpose shop stand. Will the height be adjustable or fixed?

Roger

 

[NCPete]

I don't know that a better dado set would have reduced chipout where you experienced it. scoring the line might have helped, but sometimes that is hard to do? (and have it be spot on) another option would be to tape the spot for the dado's with some blue painters tape. that may help to reduce the tear out. but, like Roger said, I think you are doing a fine job, and shop stands are a great project to learn technique on

 

[Bryan S]

The height will be fixed at about 36" and it will be mobile. I got the last set of 3" casters and wheels Woodcraft had in stock last Sat. I sure do like that store. The flip up in and outfeed will have a peice of rolled edge laminated countertop I found being thrown away at work a couple of weeks ago making in and outfeed twice as long as the planer stock in and outfeed. I love it when the hospital throws away good stuff ,they are very good at that.

I did use masking tape after the first dado cut which helped but did'nt stop the tearout. I definatly would rather learn on shop projects than something nice for in the house.

You guys do know how to build somones ego .

 

[junquecol]

Nice job! Next time make dados so tounge of shelf is at bottom, rather than top. With tounge at top, shelf is loaded so as to cause delamination stress. Probable won't happen in our life times. Also this would hide most tearout, not many will ever look under shelf.

 

[McRabbet]

Bryan -- a decent job so far -- the tearout you've experienced is due in part to the sharpness of the cutter teeth, but can also result from lower quality plywood. I'll echo the recommendation to pre-score the joint line or to use blue painter's masking tape to help avoid this issue. Two other comments concern the strength of the overall joints and correcting the gap you have in the last picture. If you haven't glued the case together yet, apply the tape (or score with utility knife) and widen the dadoes to full width of the thickness of your horizontal members -- IMHO, a full dado joint is stronger than the McRabbet (sorry, force of habit) as you'll end up with 2 times more glue surface with the dado. Even if you need to trim off the horizontal rabbeted end and narrow the cabinet width by 3/4" total, the joints will be stronger. And finally, you can glue them up one at a time, but I would recommend gluing the two interior joints at the same time(two horizontals = 4 glue applications) and then the top and bottom ones at the same time. To avoid stress on the joints, lay the entire assembly on its side on some waxed paper to keep glue squeeze out off your assembly area; check it carefully for square; and wipe up the squeeze out with a damp rag.

Hope this helps.... Rob

 

[Travis Porter]

IMO, a better set cuts cleaner, but there is a big difference in cost. As for your glue up, I don't see that it matters if you are putting the face frame on after the fact.

Bruce makes a good suggestion on hiding tearout that I had never considered or heard before.

 

[zinfella]

I'm curious why you didn't make the dado wide enough to accept the entire thickness of the shelves? That makes things a lot easier than having to try and rabbet the edge of ply. I just finished a shelf for my wife using dados that accept full thickness ply, with a rabbet at the rear to accept a full thickness ply back. It's stronger than gorilla snot. :lol: I used baltic birch, but any decent quality ply would work. Here s pic of the rear and one side prior to glue up. HTH

 

[zapdafish]

i built the same thing a few weeks back. If I recall, gluing the whole thing at once help me to keep it square. I didnt really measure anything to check for squareness during the glueup because when I did a preassemble, the back panel was what squared it all up for me. lucky for me, all 4 wheels touch the ground when I roll it, hehe.

you might be able to glue it up in sections but I would try and at least have the back panel clamped in somehow to keep things square. maybe do the top and bottom first and then the middle? hopefully someone with more experience might be able to give a decent glue up order here.

Steve

 

[NCPete]

could always ask for some help, from someone else with more clamps

 

[toolferone]

I'm curious why you didn't make the dado wide enough to accept the entire thickness of the shelves?

The idea behind the smaller dado and grove is that you have control over the size and not have to worry about under or oversized plywood. You make a 1/4' groove and a 1/4" tongue and they fit.

 

[NCPete]

The idea behind the smaller dado and grove is that you have control over the size and not have to worry about under or oversized plywood. You make a 1/4' groove and a 1/4" tongue and they fit.

Ah Hah!

 

[zinfella]

I see, well, there's always ba trade off.

 

[Gofor]

For purposes of discussion: I have also seen some comments that a "standard sized dado" (ie a stock bit or nominal blade stack width but thinner than the shelf) also helps in fine tuning the fit and getting less glue out. Kind of like an M & T. you can slightly undercut the visible edge to get a very tight fit, and only apply glue to the "tennon" part of the shelf which minimizes any squeezeout onto the surface you will be finishing. IMHO the idea has merit but I have not tried it. For those using routers to cut dadoes, it would seem to be a better method with the odd thicknesses of wood these days. Very little if any strength is lost if the "tennon" thickness is close to the finished shelf thickness.

JMTCW
Go

 

[Bryan S]

The idea behind the smaller dado and grove is that you have control over the size and not have to worry about under or oversized plywood. You make a 1/4' groove and a 1/4" tongue and they fit.

This was the deciding reason I did do smaller groove and of course thats what the plans called for and as inexperienced as I am at this I felt like it would be best to go by the plans.

Lots of good input and I am considering what Rob suggested but I really dont like to change blades on my saw the only way I can hold the arbor shaft for blade removal and tightening is to hold the shaft with a pair of pliers which is not a good thing to do.

Thanks for everyones input.

 

[bman]

looks like you got a great start......:icon_thum :icon_thum i plan on starting that same project this weekend i hope mine goes as good yours seem to be...... a little tear out I can live with on a shop project.....but i think i will change the tongue to the bottom of the shelf

Nice job! Next time make dados so tongue of shelf is at bottom, rather than top. With tongue at top, shelf is loaded so as to cause delamination stress. Probable won't happen in our life times. Also this would hide most tearout, not many will ever look under shelf.

Great idea!!!!! I am also going to use 5" wheels that is supposed to allow you to roll over chips and saw dust easier according to PW or FW magizine...... looks like it may be top heavy with the planer on it. I would hate to dump my planer because because of poor housekeeping

good luck with your project can't wait to see it finished keep us posted

Barry

 

[sapwood]

...... looks like it may be top heavy with the planer on it. I would hate to dump my planer because because of poor housekeeping

Barry

:rolf: :rolf:

Roger

 

[zinfella]

Some thoughts. On the cabinet that I recently made, I used a double thick bottom. The reason for that is that I wanted to use bolts & nuts to attach the casters, and I didn't want the bolt heads in the way, or to show. So, I counter sunk them into the top half of the double thick bottom, and the second piece offered me more meat to hold the casters. I then covered up holes and bolt heads on the upper half by using a 1/4" piece of baltic birch.

I made the 6' cabinet in two 3' sections, then joined them together, because it was much easier to handle that way. With the construction method that I used there is no racking if I roll the loaded cabinet with the casters hitting an obstacle, and the casters are not stressed to the point of wanting to come off. Just my ¢.02. ;-)

 

[McRabbet]

Lots of good input and I am considering what Rob suggested but I really don't like to change blades on my saw the only way I can hold the arbor shaft for blade removal and tightening is to hold the shaft with a pair of pliers which is not a good thing to do.

Thanks for everyones input.

Bryan -- You really should not need to use pliers to hold the arbor shaft when changing blades -- Here's what I do to change mine:
1) Unplug saw; 2) Remove Table Insert; 3) Use a 12" long piece of pine stud ripped to 1-1/2" x 3/4" thick that I wedge between the blade teeth and the edge of the insert hole to hold the blade (and arbor shaft) from rotating; 4) Loosen Arbor nut and remove blade (and stabilizer on my saw); 5) Place dado stack onto arbor with washer outside and finger tighten arbor nut; 6) Use pine stick to hold blade and tighten until snug (do not over-tighten); 7) Replace Dado Insert; 8) Plug saw back in.

The piece of 3/4" x 1-1/2" pine will not hurt the blade teeth or the cast iron edges around your TS Insert pocket. But pliers will damage the threads on you arbor! Hope this helps.

Rob

 

[zinfella]

Bryan -- You really should not need to use pliers to hold the arbor shaft when changing blades -- Here's what I do to change mine:
1) Unplug saw; 2) Remove Table Insert; 3) Use a 12" long piece of pine stud ripped to 1-1/2" x 3/4" thick that I wedge between the blade teeth and the edge of the insert hole to hold the blade (and arbor shaft) from rotating; 4) Loosen Arbor nut and remove blade (and stabilizer on my saw); 5) Place dado stack onto arbor with washer outside and finger tighten arbor nut; 6) Use pine stick to hold blade and tighten until snug (do not over-tighten); 7) Replace Dado Insert; 8) Plug saw back in.

The piece of 3/4" x 1-1/2" pine will not hurt the blade teeth or the cast iron edges around your tablesaw Insert pocket. But pliers will damage the threads on you arbor! Hope this helps.

Rob

EXCELLENT advice!!!!