older hand planes

[jonnyfontaine]

i'm working on a pretty tight budget, and right now and planer and jointer are pretty far off in the budget, but when i was looking at upgrading my hand planes, to buy lie-neilsen planes the ones needed to flatten, smooth, joint, and thickness stock it would actually be cheaper to find used power tools... and with the groz planes i do have spending twice the cost of the plane to upgrade the iron and chipbreaker doesn't make much sense... so now i'm looking at getting older vintage planes, but i'm not sure which ones are best, and what to expect to pay, i've heard stanley bedrock planes are really good, but cost a lot... and that older stanley planes are good especially if made before a certain year, what year is that? and how does bailey stanleys differ from regular stanleys and what's the difference in where they are made? sorry for so many questions... thanks for any advice... jonny

 

[redhawknc1]

Of course a lot of the hype of planes is ones personal taste and opinion of each tool. That said,the Stanley Bailey's before Type 19 are regarded as good user tools. And with that being said, each plane will probably need some hand tuning unless you buy one where the work is already done. I have probably 2 dozen Stanley Bailey Planes from #3 to #7 and each took some work. But, I enjoy it. Even my Lie-Nielson's benefited from some final honing.To what extent you tune it is up to the person using it. To me a clean solid good bones plane with a sharp stanley blade is all I need for what I actually do. I think my most important issue was knowing what a really great plane was like to be able to compare to others. My Lie-Nielson Bronze #4 filled that spot. Warning, hand planes can lead to a serious handtool buying disease! Along with planes come Disston saws, Stanley 750 chisels, Braces, etc., etc. A fun ride but very slippery! I still depend on my tailed tools for most everything, but I love an old Stanley Type 13 #3 in my hand and watching the curls fly! Browse the following sites for info on dating, etc.
https://home.comcast.net/~rarebear/
and google Patrick Leach "Blood and Gore", both these are considered the textbooks on Stanley Planes....

 

[DaveO]

I think that like any tool, the quality of work produced is in the hand of the holder. A cheap plane can be tuned to perfection by someone who knows what they are doing. A high dollar plane can be useless in the hands of an idiot (DAMHIKT). An excellent source of information on handtools is the Mid-west Tool Collectors Assoc. http://www.mwtca.org/ They will soon be having a big meeting at Ed Hobbs farm in Raleigh. I have aquired some of my best planes at that event. I have vintage Stanley planes, new Stanly planes, Groz planes and even one from HF. They all can be made to work as well as others, some just take more work.

Dave

 

[JimReed2160]

I think that like any tool, the quality of work produced is in the hand of the holder. A cheap plane can be tuned to perfection by someone who knows what they are doing. A high dollar plane can be useless in the hands of an idiot (DAMHIKT). An excellent source of information on handtools is the Mid-west Tool Collectors Assoc. http://www.mwtca.org/ They will soon be having a big meeting at Ed Hobbs farm in Raleigh. I have aquired some of my best planes at that event. I have vintage Stanley planes, new Stanly planes, Groz planes and even one from HF. They all can be made to work as well as others, some just take more work.

Dave

Not trying to pick a fight, but I do not agree that *a cheap plane can be tuned to perfection*. I would agree that inexpensive planes can be tuned to do household carpentry chores, but that is far from what I consider perfect. Inexpensive planes have thin blades that chatter, loose works with excessive backlash that are difficult to adjust and then do not hold their adjustment, bottoms out of flat, sides out of square--the list goes on and on. Fiddling with inexpensive planes can be educational and even fun. But trying to tune one for serious cabinetwork is a fool's errand.:BangHead:

 

[JimReed2160]

i'm working on a pretty tight budget, and right now and planer and jointer are pretty far off in the budget, but when i was looking at upgrading my hand planes, to buy lie-neilsen planes the ones needed to flatten, smooth, joint, and thickness stock it would actually be cheaper to find used power tools... and with the groz planes i do have spending twice the cost of the plane to upgrade the iron and chipbreaker doesn't make much sense... so now i'm looking at getting older vintage planes, but i'm not sure which ones are best, and what to expect to pay, i've heard stanley bedrock planes are really good, but cost a lot... and that older stanley planes are good especially if made before a certain year, what year is that? and how does bailey stanleys differ from regular stanleys and what's the difference in where they are made? sorry for so many questions... thanks for any advice... jonny

I am currently working on a corner cupboard project and am using rough sawn 5/4 walnut. All of these boards have been hand planed and jointed. All it takes is a scrub plane, a #7 jointer, and a #4 smoother. Takes a little longer than power tools, but then most home projects do not require 1000 bf to get started. My #7 is a low knob Stanley that I got for $12 on that famous on line auction site. It has a bite out of one side which ruins its collector value but does not detract from its utility. Before I found it, my jointer was a $15 Craftsman (Miller Falls). Again, far from the collector's table, but a functional plane that worked exceedingly well. Look around--there are good tools begging for adoption.

 

[CarvedTones]

Depends on where you draw the line between tuning and machining, IMO. I consider flattening the bottom, squaring/beveling/sharpening/honing the blade and adjusting "the works" to hold the blade well all as part of tuning. Squaring the sides? No way. And if it is too far out, it's just not worth the effort.

 

[Nativespec]

For what you would pay for an old Bedrock and then upgrading the chip breaker and blade, you might as well buy a good plane to start with. I am not sure what kind of wood you will usually be working with, but if the go with the Lee Valley planes, you can get the jointer, jack and smoother which all use the same blades. You can then buy extra blades with different bevels for different grains (or change the bevels on the ones that come with the planes: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=52515&cat=1,41182 .

I have both Lie Nielson and Lee Valley and like them both. Lie Nielson planes are more traditional and Lee Valley planes are more innovative-I especially like the set screws they use for setting the blades square. Lee Valley also sells fences for their planes and a chamfer guide for their block plane.

If you want a Lie Nielson, try this on-line store: http://www.finetoolj.com/LN/home.html

David

 

[CarvedTones]

My #7 is a low knob Stanley that I got for $12 on that famous on line auction site. It has a bite out of one side which ruins its collector value but does not detract from its utility. Before I found it, my jointer was a $15 Craftsman (Miller Falls). Again, far from the collector's table, but a functional plane that worked exceedingly well. Look around--there are good tools begging for adoption.

I know what you mean. This plane:

probably doesn't need to be insured for much, but I wouldn't sell it for less than it would cost to get an LN or something because that's what I would need as a functional replacement.

 

[Sandy Rose]

All of the planes that I use come from Antique Shops. I have a few that my dad cleaned up and gave me, the rest I found just stopping in and looking around. You can get one that works really well, won't cost a ton of $$ (I have not paid more than $10 per plane) and just takes a little time to clean up and sharpen the blade - I use the sandpaper method.

 

[jonnyfontaine]

thanks for all the advice, so yesterday i sharpened my irons, adjusted the frog, filled the mouth a little and i actually got my groz smoothing plane to take shavings that made paper look thick off both quilted and curly maple, it was actually a pretty good feeling, and the finish or sheen was far and beyond anything sanded i've done... but then like 10 minutes later i could already tell the blade was dulling a little bit, and then adjusting it was very finicky but when i finally did get it setup decent it did do pretty good work... i guess you can never overestimate the importance of a sharp iron... but having to stop so often to readjust the plane was pretty annoying... so yeah i would pretty much only be working with a few species of wood mahogany, figured maple, some figured redwood, and a little with ebony... but a lot of the wood is gonna be figured... what type, size, brand plane would be best for this?

 

[LeeNC]

I like the sharpened spikes you have set up to protect your planes.:gar-La;

 

[CarvedTones]

I hate generalizing, but for some reason that doesn't stop me. :dontknow: :rolf:

Here's more nonsense - "If you spend too much time sharpening, you probably aren't spending enough time sharpening." Huh? What I mean is that you may have stopped sharpening too soon. A really sharp blade stays really sharp a long time; a sharp blade stays sharp only a little while. There is a point of diminishing returns, but it is worth your while to get to the honing stage. Re-honing the blade is quick also. So get it polished mirror like and see how long it stays really sharp. I think you will find that you will spend less time honing after that initial time investment.

 

[JimReed2160]

... but then like 10 minutes later i could already tell the blade was dulling a little bit,

The blade quality of bench planes can have a wide range, from outstanding to suckey. I like to give mine the pocketknife test. Find an edge you like, either plane blade or chisel, and use this blade as a reference. Scratch it with the point of your pocketknife (non redneck machinists use a carbide scribe). Scratch a faint line on the bevel of your chisel or planeblade. Now scratch the bevel of your test item. You can judge the effort and the depth of the scratch to see which one is harder. Soft blades sharpen easily but dull quickly. Hard blades can be difficult to sharpen, but usually hold their edge longer. Really good steel has toughness and will hold its edge the longest.

This test can tell you which plane blades to replace or which planes to use for certain projects. Your sharpest and hardest blade is usually the best performer in figured hardwoods. Less capable blades may give satisfactory service when used on pine and softer woods.