OK, so you have

[Outa Square]

I am replying to the thread and ignoring mike's post about crazy planers:no:
I would say a block and number five i would second the shoulder plane, especially if you do tendon jointery.

I just got a old wooden one that i am still getting tuned up it is great. I like the idea of the second number five with a rounded iron. Any one have any specifics on this?

 

[CarvedTones]

I am replying to the thread and ignoring mike's post about crazy planers:no:
I would say a block and number five i would second the shoulder plane, especially if you do tendon jointery.

I just got a old wooden one that i am still getting tuned up it is great. I like the idea of the second number five with a rounded iron. Any one have any specifics on this?

Mark (which is what you meant, I think) don't know jack :gar-Bi

He must think I am totally insane because that is what I usally joint with (a jack, AKA #5) because I don't have a real jointer. You can joint boards that aren't too long with a jack; it just takes a little patience and a colorful vocabulary... :wmad:

 

[Cuprousworks]

Not to dispute the advise already given, but for an alternate view on how to invest your money:

How about a handplanes class? Bill Anderson isn't that far from Garner. Take a class, put your hands on his collection of real iron. Try different sizes, different brands and different planes out for yourself and then decide on your needs. That would be a decision based on your knowledge of what you want to accomplish rather than strangers' opinions of what works for them. Along the way you'll pick up some knowledge of how to actually sharpen, use and tune your plane. Ask a few questions and you can find out how to save a few bucks by learning how and where to look for tools and characteristics that that matter.

No, it's not cheap, but then again you're more likely to actually purchase planes you'll use, you'll be more proficient, and may actually enjoy using them instead of looking at them collect dust.

Two cents worth,
Mike

 

[PeteQuad]

It was my understanding that Smooth, Jack, Fore and Jointer planes were all types of Bench planes (with the general term being used to refer to something the size of a #2-#5), rather than a Bench plane being an alternative to one of them. Am I wrong?

 

[Gofor]

...I just got a old wooden one that i am still getting tuned up it is great. I like the idea of the second number five with a rounded iron. Any one have any specifics on this?

I have an old #5 Bailey that I put a Hock Chip breaker on, and used a Buck Bros blade ($2.95 at HD) which I sharpened to a 5" radius at 35 degrees that works great as a scrub plane. I put a carriage bolt in the slot 5" back from the edge and used wing nuts/washers below and above the iron to adjust the angle and swung the iron side to side to get the bevel. Started with a coarse diamond stone progressing to a 2000 grit wet dry paper. I had to adjust the frog back some to give room for the thicker chips.

Hope this helps

Go

 

[DaveO]

It was my understanding that Smooth, Jack, Fore and Jointer planes were all types of Bench planes (with the general term being used to refer to something the size of a #2-#5), rather than a Bench plane being an alternative to one of them. Am I wrong?

Yes a Bench plane is one that you keep on your bench for frequent use. I t can be a smoother, jack, fore, jointer or specialty jointery plane.

Dave

 

[mkepke]

Mark (which is what you meant, I think) don't know jack :gar-Bi
<snip>

Actually I know jointer, fore and Jack (and the latter not just because he's my son :wink_smil).

I also know Woodrat has been looking for a (powered) planer for a while. A powered jointer is rarely far behind, IME. WR - correct me if I'm wrong on that point.

Hands up everyone that has 'tailed apprentices' that still regularily uses a jointer plane. Or a scrub. I don't. Don't think I've used the 8C in a couple years. Same with the fore. Ditto the #5..a nice heavy plane, but my Primus smoother is a much more comfortable plane. What the #5 does, the Primus takes a couple extra strokes, but so what - they're much more comfortable strokes.

So, given a planer and a jointer eventually and only two planes in inventory, I opt for a plane that is supremely flexible. The humble #78.

That's my $0.02 - here's someone else's FWIW:
"[The #78] is another popular Stanley plane, on which the company built a great fortune. Nearly every workman of the time had one of these planes in their kits. This plane was so popular and functional, that it still is made today. Any handtool enthusiast should consider this plane, or one like it, be it a competitor's or a wooden version, as part of his arsenal. "

http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan10.htm

-Mark

 

[Gofor]

Guess because I don't yet have a power jointer, I am somewhat stupid on the subject, but with the length of tables on most, how do you get the twist out of a 6'or longer board? I can see where an out feed table extension would eventually get out bow, but it seems to me that a significant twist would just get telegraphed to the board as it passes over the cutter.
Since buying a thickness planer earlier in the year, I now use a sled for the majority of my flattening work, but I still have found it much quicker and more wood conservative to knock out the twist with a scrub and then jack plane (using twisting sticks for reference), neither which requires any exceptional talent for this purpose.

I am not being hard over neanderthal here. I really don't understand the technique.

Go

 

[froglips]

Oh the fun!

Mark, I think a small clarification on my understanding of the use of Jointer Plane might be useful.

As a devotee of the COS (Cult of Schwarz), his video Course, Medium and Fine helped me "see the light".

A Scrub plane is more for house carpentry, for reducing the width of 2x stock. The sole is a bit short and the blade way too narrow to do meaningful work on faces of boards. I used one to thickeness stock, it took for freak'n ever. I tend to by into the carpentry application over woodworking.

A #5, #6, Fore, or Jack plane is the equiv of a powered thickness planer. It removes a lot of stock quickly. The jack can have as wide a curviture on the blade as you'd like. No point in flattening the sole (unless its really really out).

To our original thread question, I'd not worry too much about buying a Jack. You can get them for cheap. I find them at auctions or online for under $10. I have a few lying around if you'd like to PM me.

The Jointer Plane is equiv to a wide belt sander. It takes the roughly flattened board from the Powered Thickness Planer or Jack plane and makes it uniformly flat.

It took me a long time to understand uniformly flat is not smooth. Thats the next step for a #4 or #4 1/2 smoother, hand sanding or random orbit sanding and maybe a cabinet scraper.

As an aside, the Jointer Plane has other uses beyond stock prep. It can flatten parts, like mullions or rails and styles for doors or picture frames etc. It can be used to tweak the fit of doors.

I also endorse Bill Anderson classes. I took his first class a few years back. He is a wealth of knowledge and a fine teacher.

Go, I think your solution is just fine. I've seen long sleds with the stock shimmed to make a badly warped board stable and "flat" enough to run thru the thickness planer to make one face flat. Then flip the board over and run the other face thru. Depending, you could be looking at a lot of passes thru the thicknes planer. Your approach using the jack plane and winding sticks is great!

Dang, I sure do type a lot.........

Jim

 

[4yanks]

Mark,

I also use a #5 with a radiused iron as a scrub plane. I have a Stanley #40 but find the above mentioned plane to be more effective. I agree with you that to prepare wide stock for the planer the scrub excels. In order to make it work I make frequent checks with a straight edge and winding sticks. When close I will flip the stock over to check for any rocking. When it doesn't its ready. The results don't look pretty, but who cares, the prepared surface only has to last long enough to make the other side parallel with the power planer. I own a power jointer, but for problem stock the scrub excels in my opinion.

 

[mkepke]

Guess because I don't yet have a power jointer, I am somewhat stupid on the subject, but with the length of tables on most, how do you get the twist out of a 6'or longer board?
<snip>

The conventional wisdom is that a powered jointer can readily handle stock up to 2x the overal length of the jointer. For reference, the length of a typical 6"er is about 4'.

From a technique perspective ("how do you get the twist out.."), it's basically the same approach you use with a handplane - the powered jointer is nothing more than a motorized jointer plane turned upside down, after all.

You identify the high spots and selectively knock these off, then identify the area that will serve as your reference plane (geometry), orient that to the outfeed and start full passes. You bear down on the stock as it reaches/while it is on the outfeed side, never the infeed side. This ensures the cutterhead is using the reference plane. Easier to demonstrate that describe.

-Mark

 

[woodrat]

Well, my goodness, I sure got a lot of very good information from this
thread. I'm glad I started it. :eusa_danc

The main consensus seems to be a #5/jack would be a good addition.

Again, thanks to everyone for their input. It will be put to good use.

WOW, that was fun!!!! :rotflm:

 

[CarvedTones]

Yes a Bench plane is one that you keep on your bench for frequent use. I t can be a smoother, jack, fore, jointer or specialty jointery plane.

Dave

And I thought a "bench" was a #4. I guess no one ever corrected me beause a #4 is a very common bench plane. Here's mine:

been used a coupla times...

 

[Gofor]

Mark (mkepke): Thank you for the explanation. Really makes sense and I now understand how (not saying I could do it!) a power jointer can work. Good info on the "2x the length" also, for future dreamed of purchases. After all, my main reference is Norm who says "We will take this to the jointer to get it flat and square" and after two passes he is on to the next step. Same with David Marks. I don't envy their tools (well, okay, maybe some..or maybe more than "some", but I regress), but I sure have envied their lumber sources!!. By the by, I have the Craftsman (era 1950's) knockoff of the "humble #78" and you are correct that it is a very versatile tool.

Also thanks to Woodrat and all contributors, because you indeed started this and I, too, have learned bunches.

Is this a great forum or what!!:icon_chee

Go