Lumber grading - the very basics GUESS THE GRADE

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M

McRabbet

Re: Lumber grading - the very basics

Jeff...

Bring it on! I'd like to see you pull all of this into a write-up we could put into the Download Library -- I'd be willing to help if needed.
 

Makinsawdust

New User
Robert
Re: Lumber grading - the very basics

Jeff, I think we all benefit by understanding how board feet are calculated. (It's not like buying 5 lbs of potatoes.)

Is there a difference when calculating board feet of green wood and wood that has been dried? The reason for asking is because when I bought from Gennetts in Asheville they made the calculation to account for the shrinkage of the kiln dried lumber.

I haven't experienced this elsewhere so I wonder if this is just their policy? It has probably been a couple of years since buying from them after finding other lumber sellers did not follow that method. I can't say how they presently calculate.

Roy

Roy,
The practice of calulating on what's called "gross tally" is practiced by most wholesale distibutors on domestic woods. They usually add 8% for shrinkage. It is pretty widely done and not just this dealer. It is important when getting a quote to understand if they are calulating on gross or net tally. Net tally is the actual board feet that you get. Most retailers use the later and that's why you have not seen the practive before.
My domestic wood wholesale supplier uses gross tally and my exotic wood importer/wholesaler uses net tally. So I have to take this account.
Like I said in another post lately, you need to make sure you are comparing the same grade of wood when shopping price.
Hope this helps you understand why they did what they did.
Rob
 

Monty

New User
Monty
Re: Lumber grading - the very basics

This looks like it will be an awesome reference - keep it up, Jeff!
 
J

jeff...

Re: Lumber grading - the very basics

8 ) Understanding of F1F basic grade requirements. F1F is the abbreviation for FAS ONE FACE. Meaning the poor side of the board must grade to #1 common and the good side of the board must grade to FAS. It may be hard to understand that lumber cut from the out side of the tree usually yields a higher grade than lumber that’s closer to the pith. As a sapling grows it side shoots lots of branches as it also continues to gain height, as it grows taller it sheds it’s lower branches. New girth growth grows over the shed branch sockets and continues to produce new wood. It’s this new growth that produces higher quality and grade than when the tree was young. In todays hurry up world, not many forest trees are allowed to remain standing long enough to produce high amounts of FAS lumber. At some point I would like to write up something about log grades and lumber that can be expected but that’s another subject for another time.

As you would expect the grade rules are the same for FAS, here’s a summary:

* Minimum board size of 6” wide x 8’ long
* Minimum cutting size of 4” wide x 5’ long or 3” wide x 7’ long
* F1F yield is SM x 10 or 83 1/3%
* Formula to calculate number of allowable cuts is SM / 4 with a maximum of 4

9) Let’s take a look at an F1F example; the poor side is identical in respect to the number and size of clear cuttings to our #1 common example, so we already know the poor side grades to #1 common. However, note the 9’ long end grain split on the right hand side of the example, it’s not a surface check, it’s actually a split that is present on both sides of the board. For the purpose of understanding the basics and simplicity we’ll round the spit defect up to a length of one foot long. Also note the arched lines on the right hand side as characteristic of a board sawn from a log that had trapper on the small end of the log and can either be wane (bark) or missing wood. Since we already know the poor side grades to #1 common, does the good side grade to FAS?

attachment.php


9-1) First calculate Board Foot (BF)

Thickness 2 * Width 8 * Length 8
---------------------------------- = 10.67 BF
12

9-2) Calculate the surface measure (SM)

Width 8 * Length 8
--------------------- = 5.33 SM (5 rounded)
12

9-3) Calculate the number of cutting units (CU) contained in the example

Width 8 * Length 8 = 64 CU


9-4) Calculate number of allowable FAS cuttings to make grade

SM (5)
----- = 1.25 FAS allowable cuts (1 fraction dropped)
4

9-5) Calculate FAS CU Yield required

SM (5) * 10 = 50 FAS cutting units required

9-6) Calculate Clear Cutting Units of clear piece on the good side of the board, Width 8 * Length 7 = 56 Clear Cutting Units

As you would expect the board in this example does qualify for the F1F grade by making one cross cut at approx 1 foot from the end leaving a 8” wide 7’ long piece of lumber. FAS clear cutting yield equals 50 and the actual clear piece of lumber after our one allowable cut represents 56 clear cutting units.
 

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Grgramps

New User
Roy Hatch
Re: Lumber grading - the very basics

Roy,
The practice of calculating on what's called "gross tally" is practiced by most wholesale distributors on domestic woods. They usually add 8% for shrinkage. It is pretty widely done and not just this dealer. It is important when getting a quote to understand if they are calculating on gross or net tally. Net tally is the actual board feet that you get. Most retailers use the later and that's why you have not seen the practice before.
My domestic wood wholesale supplier uses gross tally and my exotic wood importer/wholesaler uses net tally. So I have to take this account.
Like I said in another post lately, you need to make sure you are comparing the same grade of wood when shopping price.
Hope this helps you understand why they did what they did.
Rob

Rob, I appreciate your taking the time to explain this. Gennett's never gave me an explanation, but I'll admit that I didn't question management. I only dealt with the people in the warehouse and what I got from them was a distant stare as though I was speaking a foreign language. It would have helped if they had explained that the were using "gross tally" and that I was paying for 8% more than it measured.

I suppose I'm lucky that they didn't take into consideration how the
U.S. dollar that I paid with has depreciated.;-)

Roy
 
J

jeff...

Re: Lumber grading - the very basics

10) Basic understanding of the Select grade. Although hardwood lumber is graded from the poorest side of the board, there are a few exceptions; F1F and Select are the exceptions. Many boards have a good side and can be used in many applications by taking advantage of the better side of the board. Thus the select grade rules were written to account for these valuable boards.

* Minimum board size is 4” wide by 6’ long, note the difference of a full 2’ in length and 2” in width from FAS and F1F Minimum board size.
* Minimum size of cuttings are 4” wide by 5’ long or 3” wide by 7’ long (same as FAS and F1F)
* Select yield can be qualified two different ways:
  1. The good side will grade FAS with the poor side sound (note the poor side does not have to meet any special grade requirement, just be sound+)
  2. The good side will grade FAS with the poor side grading to #1 common or better. (The poor does not have to be sound+)
  3. +Sound is defined as free from rot, pith, shake, and wane, texture is not considered. Admits sound knots, bird peck, stain, streaks, or equivalent, season checks, and worm holes)
* Number of allowed cuts is SM / 4 drop any fraction (same as FAS and F1F)

I'll add more when I get some time

Thanks
 
J

jeff...

Re: Lumber grading - the very basics

Guess the Grade

The board is 4/4 thick, 9" wide and 8' long there is pith on the far right side that starts about 7" from the lower edge and extended at an angle till it disappears about 2' from the end where it started. The pith is considered defect because the board is split in the pith and will be required to be cut out be use. The rest of the board is clear on both sides and free of defect.

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Heres a little table to help you determine the grade.

Board foot = thickness x length x width / 12
Surface Measure = length x width /12
Cutting Units = length x width
Number of allowed cuts is (FAS F1F and Select = Surface Measure / 4) (#1 Common is Surface Measure +1 / 3)
Required FAS F1F and Select clear cutting units is Surface Measure * 10
Required #1 Common clear cutting units is Surface Measure * 8

How many clear cutting units are in this board? Hint 7" wide by 8' long

How many clear cutting units are required per grade?

What's grade is this board?
 
J

jeff...

No body wants to take a guess? Not even Bas - man you guys are a tough crowd :eusa_booh
 

FredP

Fred
Corporate Member
ok here is a guess. 1 common. if you was to rip the pith off it would be FAS select.????????????

fred p the guess master!!!:rolf:
 
J

jeff...

ok here is a guess. 1 common. if you was to rip the pith off it would be FAS select.????????????

fred p the guess master!!!:rolf:

Wow Fred you da man there, does your wife know you are da man?

Your right it's #1 common and if I were to rip the pith out, it would become FAS at 7" wide x 8' long. This is a good example why an edger and end trimmer are vital pieces of machinery in a FAS ~ Select yard. And the very reason why us other guys who don't have edgers and trimmer produce a lot of #1 common:bom:
 

FredP

Fred
Corporate Member
Wow Fred you da man there, does your wife know you are da man?

Your right it's #1 common and if I were to rip the pith out, it would become FAS at 7" wide x 8' long. This is a good example why an edger and end trimmer are vital pieces of machinery in a FAS ~ Select yard. And the very reason why us other guys who don't have edgers and trimmer produce a lot of #1 common:bom:


yeh fred!!! akchooally it wasnt as much a guess as an ejukated obserashun!:rolf: I worked in a few sawmills when i was younger and we used to rough grade our lumber as it was stacked and stickered. then the grader came by and we gots ta see how close we got!:icon_thum we got bonuses for gettin it right [ usualy a bag o redman! ] and the owner was pleased when we got it right too. all mthe FAS stuff was sold to the exporters and they had the big bucks!

fred
 
J

jeff...

yeh fred!!! akchooally it wasnt as much a guess as an ejukated obserashun!:rolf: I worked in a few sawmills when i was younger and we used to rough grade our lumber as it was stacked and stickered. then the grader came by and we gots ta see how close we got!:icon_thum we got bonuses for gettin it right [ usualy a bag o redman! ] and the owner was pleased when we got it right too. all mthe FAS stuff was sold to the exporters and they had the big bucks!

fred

Well remind me to get you a bag of redman;-)
 

FredP

Fred
Corporate Member
Well remind me to get you a bag of redman;-)


no need fer that stuff these days but thanks fer the offer! might want a tour of the mill one day when its back up and runnin though. BTW I ran the edger!:-D
 
J

jeff...

no need fer that stuff these days but thanks fer the offer! might want a tour of the mill one day when its back up and runnin though. BTW I ran the edger!:-D


Been a long time since I priced lumber - I have a list of suppliers that I used to use to help me figure out what the going rate was. So I poked around a little and found hardwood lumber prices have hit all time low prices, actually lumber prices are the lowest I've seen since I started paying attention to them about 3 years ago.

For the purpose of this thread I went out and looked up plain sawn White Oak lumber and found that kiln dried rough cut #1 Common is going for about $2.00 a board foot. Select is about $2.50 a BF and FAS about $3.00 a BF

Taking my 4/4 x 9" x 8' guess the grade board and imagining it were white oak instead of quarter sawn sycamore. The value of the board as it sits being a #1 common is about $12.00 (6 board feet times $2.00 a board foot). If I were to edge the board to make it into a FAS board it would measure 4/4 x 7" x 8' or 4.6 board foot with a value of $13.80 (4.6 board feet times $3.00 a board foot). Just by edging the board I could increase it's value by $1.80. That doesn't seem like much really when you price a nice edger at about $16,000. I would need to throw about 8900 boards like this one or about 45000 board feet through the edger just to re-coop the cost of the edger.

Now you know why you got a bag of redman Fred :tongue100:
 
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