Lathe Tools

[jg2259]

Hi, I am new to turning, but have done a lot of research. I purchased an 8 pc set of Harbor Freight lathe tools to learn to turn and to sharpen. I was just about ready to build a Wolverine type jig, when I found a Woodcut Tru Grind jig, an Ace 6" grinder, with 5 wheels(Norton/3M Grey/White) for $130.

Now I am attemping to sharpen my tools. I setup the Tru Grind on my Harbor Freight 8"wet/6"dry grinder, and I am surprised at how good of a job the wet wheel does, although I don't have anything to compare it to, because I have never sharpened a lathe tool before. But I have sharpened plane irons and chisels, and I definitely know what sharp is.

My problem is, I can't tell the difference between a spindle gouge, bowl gouge, roughing gouge, etc. I'm not even sure if the set included a bowl gouge. I'm trying to sharpen these tools by the standards that are documented in the Tru Grind manual, but need to know what I am sharpening, so I can apply the correct settings. I have attached pics of two of the gouges that I am having trouble identifying.

Any insight is greatly appreciated.
Jim

 

[mkepke]

What you posted are both spindle gouges. The tang (the metal tail of the tool embedded in the wooden handle) is a relatively small piece of flat steel.

A "roughing gouge" is, IMO, just a big spindle gouge.

Bowl gouges are typically made from round-bar stock and have a much more pronounced "U" shape when viewed from the cutting end.

Look here:
http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.woodturner.org/resource/resmgr/fundamentals/guidetogouges.pdf

-Mark

 

[ashley_phil]

agreed none of those look like a true bowl gouge.

not to say you can't turn a bowl with one or put a thumbnail grind on one and go to work. especially the more narrow one.

 

[Roy G]

The last picture definitely shows a spindle gouge. This is the kind you can grind into a fingernail profile for easier cove cutting. The gouge with the deeper curve is a roughing gouge and this one you would always grind straight across like it is now.

Roy G

 

[jg2259]

Ok, I am now aware that the two gouges that I pictured ARE NOT bowl gouges.
I am going to purchase a Thompson 1/2" bowl gouge (probably U flute).

Am I correct that Thompson gouges do not have handles? I'm not concerned about actually turning the handle, but I am worried about the proper way to install the blade into the handle.
Do I make the hole tight or loose? Do I use epoxy, and if I do, should I drill a small hole somewhere for the air and epoxy to escape? If I like the size and shape of the handles I make, what is the easiest method of removing the handles of my HF tools, without damaging the tang? I always wondered this about paring chisel handles too. I'd love to make new handles for them also, but don't want to damage them. Some have tangs and others have sockets.


I may also buy another lower quality bowl gouge (Bens Best/Grizzly/Artsan/???) to experiment with different grinds. Which lower quality/inexpensive manufacturer makes a tool that is still usable?

 

[smallboat]

For an upgrade to your Harbor Freight set at a reasonable price point try Hurricane.
I've had good luck with mine in the same situation you describe.
http://www.thewoodturningstore.com/...634.html?sid=2d358b195a0638cb8bf5294506e694cc

And it looks like they are on sale.

 

[aplpickr]

Half of the gouges in most sets YOU WILL NEVER USE! As a beginner you only need a spindle gouge, parting tool, a skew, and a bowl gouge. These four tools will turn 90% of all the turning that you will ever attempt. Skill, muscle memory, and practice are much more important than the tools in your bucket! Join a turning club and take classes. This will save you Thousands over the years. Learn to sharpen and do it often. A 10" diameter blank spinning at 2000 rpm presents 62,800 inches of surface to the edge of your chisel per minute! Can you wait over a minute and still have sharp tool? Bowl gouges should be long, strong, and tough. A bowl gouge can do anything that a spindle gouge can. Never use a spindle or roughing gouge as a bowl gouge. You will have red turnings if you try that! Buy the best quality bowl gouge that you can afford. Most of the mid-range bowl gouges you will spend more time sharpening than turning. White wheels yield a better edge than grey wheels, learn to hone with diamond. Thompson tools are worth every penny of their cost! Unhandled. I use five minute epoxy to secure tool in handles. Always use ferrules, used, scrap plumbing items. Brass fittings can be carefully turned with regular chisels Scar the inserted ends of steel on your grinder to give places for glue to bite

 

[chris_goris]

A bowl gouge can do anything that a spindle gouge can.

Aplpickr, This is just not true…you could NEVER use bowl gouge to rough turn a spindle, the grind angle(s) are all wrong.

 

[danmart77]

Aplpickr, This is just not true…you could NEVER use bowl gouge to rough turn a spindle, the grind angle(s) are all wrong.

Shifting from bowl turning to spindle turning is a big jump. I think you have a good point on the grind. Unlike many others who love the gouge, I am a skew user for most spindle work. Its a steep learning curve at the beginning but once you decide on skew configuration that you like its a matter of practicing often and carefully till you get your confidence cutting not scraping with the skew

I have been drifting to the curved edge skew after years of working with the first generation flat sided straight cutting edge skew. I use a slight hollow grind.

I am not a dedicated turner and I don't do bowl work so I'll leave bowls to another turner.

As you can see on the NY leg on the left the edge of the lower birds beak cove isn't pretty. That will go in the inside where you won't see it. The beads are turned with the skew and the coves are done with a modified gouge ground from tool steal(cylinder) that usually prevents little catches like the ugly rash on the feature I pointed out. Making tons of these at one time the legs made later in the day are usually a bit nicer.

​

 

[chris_goris]

Beautiful work Dan! Do you rough (square to round) with a skew? Ive tried it, it works very well indeed!

 

[aplpickr]

Chris:
I have turned spindles for years with a bowl gouge. I use it especially for shear scrapping spindles. A spindle gouge does a better job, but if the bowl gouge is sharp and the spindle gouge is dull, I pick up the bowl gouge. I turn some pens to a finished state with a roughing gouge. Not complex coves, etc. but gentle slopes. Using a bowl gouge on a spindle is not dangerous, but the reverse is very dangerous. There has been a concerted effort by the AAW for years to label the roughing gouge as a SPINDLE roughing gouge. Using a SRG on a bowl....use a helmet and chain mail gloves! You will get hurt!

Sharpness and technique are as important as which gouge you use! I saw a demo where a 2" diameter box with a popping lid was turned in a total of 90 seconds with only a 1" straight skew! Wasn't the prettiest finish but it was functional. I mostly use skews for digging dandelion roots. I love the finish from a skew when I do use them. Learning to sharpen correctly is the skill missing from most new turners' quivers. A class on general turning at Arrowmont or J C Campbell can be the best money that you ever spend on woodturning.

 

[KenOfCary]

I know JC Campbell but where is Arrowmont?

 

[Mike Davis]

Not up to all this... still use a sharpened screw driver.

 

[danmart77]

Chris I do that when I have 20 or less legs and stretchers. If I decide to turn out 60 legs and 40 stretchers I do something more expedient. With the square or octagon blank between centers I have a box jig above the spindle. The router sits above with a big cove bit. Spin the blank slowly and run the router down the track and you have a slick cylinder in 10 seconds.

When the box is filled with 100 perfect cylinders I go back and change the plate on top of the box for the rough contour of the leg or stretcher. Zip off lots of wood very fast.

Time for the skew.

I don't want to spend any more time at the dust lathe than I have to spend. Goggles, face mask, respirator, vacuum going is not my idea of fun. Its work. Gotta get er' done.

When you have a set of chairs to go out the door you can do it one at a time and starve or you can find faster ways to plow the rows. Just me.




I like shaping the chair and doing all the boring and angles. Its relaxing and fun.

This is the part that's work. Its a toss up between splitting logs for spindles and steaming and turning legs for least fun.

My favorite time is seeing them go out the door.

 

[aplpickr]

Arrowmont, downtown Gatlinburg, TN. Multi-craft school with turning studio with about thirty lathes from Jet minis to PM3520s and One-ways. Over 100+ years. www.arrowmont.org. Food (great) and housing are available on site. One hundred feet off main drag, but you are suddenly in a different world! Week and weekend classes available. All the traveling demonstrators show up there sooner or later. They will often teach at both schools on successive weeks, only about fifty miles apart. Class size, usually 10 to 12. A good place to pick your next upgraded lathe purchase, Turn on your wish dream lathe for a few hours!

 

[walnutjerry]

Gatlinburg, Tenn.

 

[danmart77]

Chris:
I have turned spindles for years with a bowl gouge. I use it especially for shear scrapping spindles. A spindle gouge does a better job, but if the bowl gouge is sharp and the spindle gouge is dull, I pick up the bowl gouge. I turn some pens to a finished state with a roughing gouge. Not complex coves, etc. but gentle slopes. Using a bowl gouge on a spindle is not dangerous, but the reverse is very dangerous. There has been a concerted effort by the AAW for years to label the roughing gouge as a SPINDLE roughing gouge. Using a SRG on a bowl....use a helmet and chain mail gloves! You will get hurt!

Sharpness and technique are as important as which gouge you use! I saw a demo where a 2" diameter box with a popping lid was turned in a total of 90 seconds with only a 1" straight skew! Wasn't the prettiest finish but it was functional. I mostly use skews for digging dandelion roots. I love the finish from a skew when I do use them. Learning to sharpen correctly is the skill missing from most new turners' quivers. A class on general turning at Arrowmont or J C Campbell can be the best money that you ever spend on woodturning.

For any turning enthusiasts in the Raleigh/Durham area you don't have to go to the Campbell School to get the instruction. Allen Leland teaches at Campbell and he teaches the same thing and more in his very nice shop in Durham. Allen is a master of the spindle gouge.

Allen has taught lots of students in his shop on the 2 one-way lathes he owns. The one on one instruction is the way to go on turning. Any turners looking for instruction can contact me and I will put you in touch with Allen.

Dan

 

[jg2259]

Ok, I purchased 3 Hurricane bowl gouges ($59 for all 3), to practice both turning and sharpening. Once comfortable, I will then buy a Thompson bowl gouge.
I found a Woodcut Tru Grind jig, a 3/4hp 6" grinder, and 5 grinding wheels ( white and light blue) all for $120. Not a great deal, but I'm happy.

I'm not sure if I will use the 6" grinder or my Harbor Freight 8" wet grinder to sharpen with. I will have to experiment with both.

My bowl gouges are supposed to be delivered tomorrow. Can't wait!!

 

[aplpickr]

With 3 bowl gouges/$59 you will probably spend more time grinding than turning! The bevel of a bowl gouge is hollow ground. The shape of that hollow grind is determined by the diameter of your grinder wheels. Eight inch wheels give a better shape than 6". The difference is thousandths but it does make a difference. Cheaper bowl gouges save money by not inserting the shank into the handle as far. BE CAREFUL OF THE STEEL NOT HAVING A HANDLE ANYMORE. Always wear a helmet with a faceguard when turning bowls. When a marginally tempered gouge snaps and a 6" piece flies past your ear, you can't duck fast enough. The sharpening jigs are to create repeatability. Once sharpened and shaped all that the next sharpening should be is only one to two seconds. It will take longer to set it in the jig than actual grinding time. Every extra pass on the grinder is money washed down the drain.

 

[jg2259]

Thanks aplpicker. I realize that these gouges are not top quality, and now with your recommendation I will purchase a face shield. And I plan to only start off with small 3"-4" bowls, and take it slow. I have watched many youtube videos, and feel that I have a grasp on the techniques required.

The advertisement video on Hurricane bowl gouges tout them as good as any on the market, but it is probably just hype. For the price, they must have taken some shortcuts in the manufacturing process. But from my research, I feel they will be better than the HF gouges that I currently have, and also better than the PSI BB gouges that seem to be the low cost alternative that most new turners go for.

Thanks again for the response.

Jim