Joint seperation question

[Keye]

As a new member I was reading old threads, just to develope a feel for the forum, when I ran across a closed thread concerning joint sepration in a walnut secretary.

The issue of seperation with a cross grain joint was straight forward. The question I have concerned the comments on seperation of a dado joint between the drawer rail and the case side. Both pieces are solid walnut. If I understand the comments the reason for the failure of this joint would be attributed to wood movement. Because the wood movement of both pieces is in the same plane I would not think expansion and contraction would be the primary reason for this joint to fail. I have built pieces using dado's, sliding dovetails and rabbits for this joint. I have never had any to fail. Am I just lucky?

I am about to start a nine drawer dresser. I am planning on using the same joinery of a triple dresser I have. This is a very high end bedroom suite and the dresser and chest on chest are built with drawer rails that have stopped dado's. This furniture is made from real Honduras mahoganey and the joints are as tight as the day I bought it. The dresser I am making will be cherry.

Do I really need to worry about using the stopped dado's for the drawer rails?

One thing I found interesting about the chest on chest I have is how the drawer dividers are made. They glued boards together, cross cut them and placed them so the movement would be front to back. This solved the cross grain joint problem with drawer dividers.

 

[cpowell]

Keye, If I remember, the reason for the separation in the dado joint (drawer web frame inset in sides) was that glue was applied along the length of the dado. The web frame side was long grain and the solid side panel dado was cross grain. The side panel will move with moisture gain whereas the long grain of the web frame will have negligible movement.

You wouldn't have problems with the dadoes/dovetails on the web frame if you only secured one end (likely the front) and allowed the remainder to float, assuming you leave enough free space for expansion.

The link below provides moisture coefficients for various species. There are much better ones on the web but I can't seem to find them now. http://www.zoltanfloors.com/tech.html

As an example, with red oak, the moisture coefficient is .00369. A 14 inch raised panel with 1/4 inch space allowed for movement (1/8 each side) would take a moisture increase of nearly 5 percent before it begins to bind. In other words, a 14 inch wide red oak panel moves .00369 inches per inch width per percent moisture change. Quarter sawn wood will move less than flat sawn.

Sorry to be so wordy! :lol:

Chuck

 

[Keye]

Looks as if I should have paid more attention to what I was reading.8-O I thought the issue was the front drawer rail being in a dado. I did not catch the issue with the side draw slide frame being glued front to back. This could definitely cause a problem.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Nativespec]

I am working on a 7 drawer chest and I cut grooves into the sides of the flush fitting drawers and then screwed solid runners into the drawer dividers. I referred to a cabinet making book and screws with oversized holes were recommended for adjusting the position of the runner. This was my second chest of drawers-in my first set I used full extension hardware. My current method was for cost and simplicity as well as being more pleasing to the eye.

 

[Keye]

Nativespec, I am still looking at different plans. Where did you find the plans you are using?

 

[Nativespec]

I did not use any plans, I just looked at some different finished pieces and made my own. The book I referred to was a Cabinet and Furniture Construction from the Taunton Press: http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/store/pages/070534.asp

I have never used plans before, I am probably too cheap. I prefer to look at some pictures, take some measurements and just get going with some quick sketches. The book above is pretty good, but they also have a specific book for chests of drawers:

Chests of Drawers

Also, you may want to search Amazon for a better price.

Thanks,

David

 

[cpowell]

I did not use any plans, I just looked at some different finished pieces and made my own. The book I referred to was a Cabinet and Furniture Construction from the Taunton Press: The Complete Illustrated Guide to Furniture & Cabinet Construction

I have never used plans before, I am probably too cheap. I prefer to look at some pictures, take some measurements and just get going with some quick sketches. The book above is pretty good, but they also have a specific book for chests of drawers:

Chests of Drawers

Also, you may want to search Amazon for a better price.

Thanks,

David

David, I have not used purchased plans for a while either. I print a picture of a piece that I like (or that LOML selects) then scale dimensions to meet my needs. I then draw up plans as needed for frame layout and add detailed drawings as needed, such as M&T details, as I go along. I enjoy that approach a lot. It's a trade-off between time spent designing and overall satisfaction in making it truly custom.

Thanks for the links to some good reference material. I consider those to be a good investment. :icon_thum

Chuck