HVLP - don't laugh

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Steve D

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Steve DeWeese
FWIW, my Walcom is a gravity feed and my Asturo is a 1 QT pressure pot. I like them both

DavidF said:
The compressor is in and installed - a real beut! still researching the gun. Bernhard put me off the gravity feed Asturo gun and suggested I look at pressure pot equiv. I borrowed a turbine sprayer and will be trying that this week.
 

DavidF

New User
David
You remember that Wagner sprayer ad where he ends up spraying the whole street? well my shop was like that yesterday as I got to grips with this turbine sprayer! All horizantal and vertical surfaces were used as test pieces; the bottom box of my "under construction" assy table is now sprayed! eventually I commited to spraying the final piece and they (coasters) disappeared off the bench!! a good reason not to buy a bleeder type gun:BangHead:

So down with the air flow which affected the spray so back to test sprays - more sprayed scrap! back to the coasters first coat good - yippee..

2 hrs later time for second coat; started to spray, no finish coming out:eusa_thin opened flow valve, still nothing, opened more still nothing - gobs of air coming out of the gun all the time just no finish - pulled the trigger harder.... more finish than a coaster ever might need is now flowing from the gun:BangHead:flooding the bench, the coasters etc, etc... still, look on the bright side - no brush marks!!! The finish this morning is not actually too bad, a little rubbing out will see them right.

Tonight the face side gets sprayed - scared or what?

These are coasters for heavens sake - life shouldn't be this hard:eusa_booh
 

DavidF

New User
David
Am I right in thinking that on this gun -Apollo "touch up" that the air flow reg just controls the fan shape and that the atomizing air coming out through the centrol nozzle is a constant? other wise, as I see it, you couldn't have a smaller spray pattern without the risk of not atomizing the finish. So, should I just set the air flow for the size of spray pattern and then just ease in the material flow until I get a fine coat on the surface? The material flow control is simply a trigger stop. Once I get this straight in my head I can sort it.
 

Steve D

Member
Steve DeWeese
Who says there is a learning curve to spraying? :lol: The "no material coming out" was probably due to a thin film of dried finish covering the outlet. DAMHIKT but never start a spraying session spraying onto your project. I always keep a box or a piece of scrap plywood or something nearby and spray a test patern onto it before I start onto the project. I do this between coats too. I also keep a rag handy and wipe the tip whenever taking a break to prevent a film from covering the tip.
 

Steve D

Member
Steve DeWeese
David, hopefully John or Bernard will chime in here, I can't really tell you how to adjust the turbine as all of my experience is with conversion guns.

DavidF said:
Am I right in thinking that on this gun -Apollo "touch up" that the air flow reg just controls the fan shape and that the atomizing air coming out through the centrol nozzle is a constant? other wise, as I see it, you couldn't have a smaller spray pattern without the risk of not atomizing the finish. So, should I just set the air flow for the size of spray pattern and then just ease in the material flow until I get a fine coat on the surface? The material flow control is simply a trigger stop. Once I get this straight in my head I can sort it.
 

Travis Porter

Travis
Corporate Member
David and Steve, the two of you appear to be the "spray finishing junkies".

Where are you spraying, how you keeping the dust down, what you doing for ventilation, and how you keeping from spraying everything else (David, I believe you are spraying everything else from what you say :lol: )?
 

Steve D

Member
Steve DeWeese
Travis, my shop is a 2 car garage with two single doors. I have it set up with a fan in a window (with a screen) that draws air into the shop creating positive pressure. I open the garage door and use 3 pieces of the 1" insulation board to close off the opening. I have cutouts in the insulation board that are covered with furnace filters. I also use plastic sheeting hung from the tracks for the garage door to protect sidespray. As far as dust goes, I clean up the shop before spraying. The cleaner the better but I get very good results without having a dedicated spray booth. There are a lot of great plans to make spray booths with PVC pipe, plastic sheeting and cheap box fans. IMHO positive pressure is better than an exhaust fan because you don't need an explosion proof fan for combustible finishes, you don't coat your fan with finish and if used in a booth configuration, you don's draw dust into the booth (cover the inlet side of the box fan with a furnace filter).

Travis Porter said:
David and Steve, the two of you appear to be the "spray finishing junkies".

Where are you spraying, how you keeping the dust down, what you doing for ventilation, and how you keeping from spraying everything else (David, I believe you are spraying everything else from what you say :lol: )?
 

DavidF

New User
David
Ok, just spoke to a nice man at apollo. He said that for WB clear coat the air valve should be open about half way to ensure atomization, so my idea that that only controls the fan size was wrong. The fan size is acutally controlled simply by the distance from the surface! easy when you know. The distance should be 2" - 8" max! way closer than I would have thought. Then I threw him when I told him they were light parts, so he suggested holding the gun at say 5 - 6" and turning the air flow up to the max before I had flying coasters! then gradually feed in the material flow until I could lay a thin coat. If it spluttered at that point I.E no atomization then there is no choice, but to secure the parts down with DS tape or similar so that the air can be turned up to atomization levels. Generally the more air the better until you get excessive over spray. Another rule - the more the material flow, the higher the air flow required to atomize it - make sense.

So tonight I will try these things and let you know.
 

DavidF

New User
David
Travis - I am starting out and probably sticking with WB finishes so have not worried about ventilation too much and getting rid of noxious fumes. I have not rigged up anything in the way of a booth for this project as it is so small. One of the main reasons for going the HVLP route was the low overspray. They are also right when they say that with WB products, especially clear coats, by the time the overspray has travelled 10" or more it's dry and easlily swept up. I have found this to be true in my spray madness last night! I do intend to rig up a 3 sided poly booth that hangs from battens on the cieling when the need arises. As for cleaning, I wiped the area down and sprayed the floor with a little water and then left my over head JET filter running for a whole before I started. When I was ready I turned off my heater fan. Anther good thing about WB finishes is that they are very fast drying especially when sprayed (except when sprayed 1/4" thick:roll:) see above... So dust settling is not as much of a problem. When I did my correct coat last night it was actually touch dry in about 15 mins.
 

Travis Porter

Travis
Corporate Member
Between you and Steve over the last week or so the two of you have about convinced me to by an HVLP conversion gun and some Dyes. I expect I will be buying an HVLP conversion gun, some transtint dyes, and Target USL waterbased lacquer .

If I get divorced over this, it will be your fault that I have to live in my shop. Unfortunately, I did not equip it with a toilet.:eusa_thin
 

Steve D

Member
Steve DeWeese
I'm sure that some members could post terrific design plans for an outhouse. :lol:
Travis Porter said:
If I get divorced over this, it will be your fault that I have to live in my shop. Unfortunately, I did not equip it with a toilet.:eusa_thin
 

DavidF

New User
David
My choice will be conversion too - probably Wagner - price is a serious issue. If I had no compressor then turbine would be considered, BUT it is NOISY so unless you have a closet somewhere to hide it then a compressor and conversion might be better. I have a 20 gall tank on the compressor and for most of my jobs I doubt it will kick in very often especially with a non bleeder type gun. From my personal preference I would NOT get a bleeder type. the constant noise from the turbine and the air coming from the gun is very disturbing to concentration. Unfortuantly, the non bleeder gun/turbine combos tend to be more expensive as a bypass must be built into the turbine unit to allow air to flow when the trigger is not pulled. Only major concerns with the compressor/conversion setup is that the air must be water/oil free and dry. I bought a desicant type canister dryer for mine and it seems to work ok.
 

Travis Porter

Travis
Corporate Member
So do conversion guns have bleeders?

I have never heard of a desicant type dryer. I am guessing it is like the little packs of stuff you get with electronics and tools but different. I have just a plain regulator/water thingy (forget what is called). Curious to what you have, where you got it, and price (if you are willing to share).
 

Steve D

Member
Steve DeWeese
David,

I had a great setup for this in my last shop. I used firing strips to attach at the ceiling and another along the bottom for weight. I had a couple of short pieces of rope that were fastened on one side of the upper board and had a loop at the end that would hook over a cup hook on the other side of the board. When not in use, roll the plastic up on the lower board up to the ceiling and hook the rope. Use spring clamps to close the corners of the both when you are using it. I could set it up or take down in less than 5 minutes.

DavidF said:
I do intend to rig up a 3 sided poly booth that hangs from battens on the cieling when the need arises.
 

DavidF

New User
David
Again you have a choice, but most conversion guns seem to be non bleeder types. Air is only delivered when the trigger is pulled. Because of the tank on a compressor it does not care if air is being drawn where as turbine is generating air all the time and if there is no flow then heat bulids up as the moter is effectively pushing a load and will lead to motor failure. The desicant dryer is a canister about 4" dia 10" tall that holds desicant crystals, same as in the little packets. Mine came from Grainger and is a mid size one that holds 2 pounds of crystals. They can be replaced when saturated (a little window turns white) or re-activated by 4 hrs in a 400 Deg oven. Can't remember the price. but will check for you.
 

sapwood

Roger
Corporate Member
Good Grief DavidF 8-O

Just get a paint brush or some of those spray cans. :idea:
And be sure to take your shoes off before entering the house:lol:

Sapwood
 
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