Grain filler question

[DaveO]

I am begining to wonder if I might have not got the right stuff :icon_scra:icon_scra I picked up some Behlen Water Based Grain Filler today with the intentions of using it on some Walnut. I got the neutral as that was all that I saw available. I am not planning on staining just topcoating with lacquer. I am wondering if the grain filler will show up as light specks without being stained.
Anyone have experience with this product and not staining it on dark wood??
Dave

 

[bman]

i would be concerned ....have you call there tech support line

Technical Questions?
Get free technical advice
from an expert.
1-800-535-4486
Monday through Friday
8:30 a.m. - 9 p.m. EST
just a thought​

 

[woodguy1975]

I am begining to wonder if I might have not got the right stuff :icon_scra:icon_scra I picked up some Behlen Water Based Grain Filler today with the intentions of using it on some Walnut. I got the neutral as that was all that I saw available. I am not planning on staining just topcoating with lacquer. I am wondering if the grain filler will show up as light specks without being stained.
Anyone have experience with this product and not staining it on dark wood??
Dave

Neutral is just their natural colored filler. That will show up lighter than the wood if you don't darken it. You can use transtints or some WB pigmented stain to darken it. If you want natural color, but grainfill what you want is the WB clear grain filler. You can get it from Woodworker's Supply.

 

[DaveO]

John, what would a Walnut stain look like on Walnut?? That would darken the grain filler, and hopefully not add to much more color to the wood, being supposedly the same color :icon_scra:dontknow: I unfortunately don't have any time to order any thing. If what I got won't work, I'll just do without it, and use it on my next project..when I have time to get the correct stuff.
Dave

 

[woodguy1975]

John, what would a Walnut stain look like on Walnut?? That would darken the grain filler, and hopefully not add to much more color to the wood, being supposedly the same color :icon_scra:dontknow: I unfortunately don't have any time to order any thing. If what I got won't work, I'll just do without it, and use it on my next project..when I have time to get the correct stuff.
Dave

Seal the peice with shellac, tint the grain filler with walnut stain, grainfill and top coat. It should look just great. I don't mind the grain being a little darker myself. I've done similar things with drywall mudd and artist pigments on walnut. If you just got to an arts supply store and by some waterbased vandyke brown pigment, that is all you need. WB stain is just pigment with some carrier (water).

Good Luck,

John

 

[DaveO]

Thanks John!!!!

Dave

 

[DavidF]

Dave, if you really want some transparent GF then I have some you are very welcome to use.

 

[DavidF]

I also have some "tints all" pigment in Burnt and raw umber and burnt and raw sienna; again very welcome to use. We could meet up over the week end if you want it right now.

 

[DaveO]

DavidF, I really don't know what I want :dontknow: My goal is to get as smooth/glossy of a finish on this piece as I can. In the past, working with Walnut I could always see the pores, and have never been able to acheive a "piano" like finish. Generally, I don't desire that because I like the character of the wood, but for this piece I think that it is called for. I know that pore filler helps to achieve a smoother surface which in turn gives you a better gloss finish. I guess I need a filler that is the color of the wood I am using or tint it to be like WG suggested. I don't know how "transparent GF" is any different than what I have. Please excuse my ignorance
Dave

 

[DavidF]

DavidF, I really don't know what I want :dontknow: My goal is to get as smooth/glossy of a finish on this piece as I can. In the past, working with Walnut I could always see the pores, and have never been able to acheive a "piano" like finish. Generally, I don't desire that because I like the character of the wood, but for this piece I think that it is called for. I know that pore filler helps to achieve a smoother surface which in turn gives you a better gloss finish. I guess I need a filler that is the color of the wood I am using or tint it to be like WG suggested. I don't know how "transparent GF" is any different than what I have. Please excuse my ignorance
Dave

Transparent is just that, you see the colour of the wood through the grain filler, no tinting required - it has NO colour as opposed to "natual" which is the same colour as wood putty or nail filler.

 

[DavidF]

In this case you would grain fill, sand back to just leave the pores filled and then shellac / top coat. No colour matching required, just no pores.

 

[DaveO]

Oh, that Transparent, like being able to see through. It's been a long day and I'm kinda sleepy, not the brightest bulb in the chandelier right now. Makes perfect sense. I might take you up on the offer, I'll see if I have time to make the trip west.
Dave

 

[DavidF]

Oh, that Transparent, like being able to see through. It's been a long day and I'm kinda sleepy, not the brightest bulb in the chandelier right now. Makes perfect sense. I might take you up on the offer, I'll see if I have time to make the trip west.
Dave

We could meet up some where convenient for both or you are welcome to come over to the shop. I'll be putting those bowclamps to good use!

 

[PeteM]

In this case you would grain fill, sand back to just leave the pores filled and then shellac / top coat. No colour matching required, just no pores.

Question: You fill the unsealed wood and then seal? I thought you were supposed to seal first then fill.

pete

 

[DavidF]

Question: You fill the unsealed wood and then seal? I thought you were supposed to seal first then fill.

pete

The only time you MUST seal before grain fill is if you have stained the raw wood first. Because you have to sand the grain fill down after application it is done on raw wood as a rule, because there is a good likely-hood of sanding through the sealer. The other time to seal before fill is If you are tinting a natural colour grain fill then the only way to get it right is to seal the wood first to get a good colour match with the final finish. Or, if you have pretinted the grain fill then it would be a good idea to seal before grain fill to avoid possible "bleeding" of the grain fill tint into the surrounding wood. Or, I believe they do seal first if the final finish is pickled or limed.

Other than that- no rules:lol: :lol:

 

[PeteM]

The only time you MUST seal before grain fill is if you have stained the raw wood first. Because you have to sand the grain fill down after application it is done on raw wood as a rule, because there is a good likely-hood of sanding through the sealer. The other time to seal before fill is If you are tinting a natural colour grain fill then the only way to get it right is to seal the wood first to get a good colour match with the final finish. Or, if you have pretinted the grain fill then it would be a good idea to seal before grain fill to avoid possible "bleeding" of the grain fill tint into the surrounding wood. Or, I believe they do seal first if the final finish is pickled or limed.

Other than that- no rules:lol: :lol:

That makes sense (I think) :roll: Sounds like the only time NOT to seal first is if you're using a transparent filler on raw wood. Is that correct?

pete

 

[DavidF]

That makes sense (I think) :roll: Sounds like the only time NOT to seal first is if you're using a transparent filler on raw wood. Is that correct?

pete

I think you have solved the matrix Grasshopper (remember Kung fu?)

 

[mshel]

Not having tried this I can't vouch for it but I have read somewhere that you can use plaster of paris as a grain filler. A clear finish will cover the POP and you will not see any signs of it. It's cheap enough that I think it would be worth a try on a scrap before going whole hog on your project.

I may give this a try myself.

Found this using a quick google Irish Property/Find property in Ireland/property ireland search - Using traditional French polish

Mike

 

[walnutjerry]

Dave-----------Have you tried wet sanding that walnut piece? I have done that using the oil/varnish mixture and let it dry after sanding then buff on the buffing wheel with dark brown compound, beeswax next and clean wheel buffing last.

Jerry