First Workbench top question

[jebbylawless]

Attempting to build a workbench with only hand tools. So far I am just working on 2 slabs of fir 4"x11"x8'. I am trying to hand plane them flat. I seem to only be reducing the height. Every time I attack a high spot or warp I seems to go too far then have to take the whole thing down some more. I have a few questions.

Is there a particular technique for establishing a reference mark to plane down to from initially unsquared lumber?

What is a good rule for how flat to make the top? I don't want to be obsessive about flatness but I would like the bench to be useful for small project (no high-end furniture). I noticed a bench in use at Old Salem that was pretty imperfect but has obviously gotten a lot of use.

Also, I do not want to take too much off the bottom of the top planks (to save the thickness). Would there be a problem attaching the top to the base and using shims to adjust for a less than perfect fit or even some sort of 'carriage' that sits between the base and the top?

Thanks!

OK. I know pictures help. So I am editing my orig post to include a few shots. Unfortunately, I have not documented very well but you can get a feel for what I'm working with.

Here is a shot of the lumber pile that I got the material for the base from.

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Pile that I got the top slabs from (the pieces in the middle). These are about 7.5 ft long.

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Here are a few shots of one of the slabs after I Initially planed off the saw marks (not flat but not as rough as it began either). It is on sawhorses and has already been useful as a workbench. This has started me to wonder if I really need a 'flat' top at all. I guess it all depends on what you are working on.

View image in gallery

View image in gallery​

And my newest plane that I am attempting to rehab. A Stanley #8. Even in rough condition (and in spite of myself) I have already used it to successfully joint 2 of these slabs together!

View image in gallery​

 

[Mark Gottesman]

Attempting to build a workbench with only hand tools. So far I am just working on 2 slabs of fir 4"x11"x8'. I am trying to hand plane them flat. I seem to only be reducing the height. Every time I attack a high spot or warp I seems to go too far then have to take the whole thing down some more. I have a few questions.

Is there a particular technique for establishing a reference mark to plane down to from initially unsquared lumber?

I use a pair of "Winding Sticks"(look that up) and a The largest jointer plane (Stanley #8 a # 7 is fine) to get a flat surface. It is not easy or quick. The long plane helps bridge the low spots and does not dig in to far on the humps. This is a tough project if you've never done something this large before, but it is doable. I start at 45 degree path to the long axis and then go back up the other side (sort of a criss cross) and keep looking it over with the winding sticks. Once you get one side flat, Your Golden, as you now have a reference plane. a quick check for bumps it to turn over piece on a flat concrete floor and see if it rocks when pushing on a corner.

What is a good rule for how flat to make the top? I don't want to be obsessive about flatness but I would like the bench to be useful for small project (no high-end furniture). I noticed a bench in use at Old Salem that was pretty imperfect but has obviously gotten a lot of use.

That is up to you. You could always skin the surface with a thin sheet for a sacrificial layer and that would make it probably as flat and smooth as you need.

Also, I do not want to take too much off the bottom of the top planks (to save the thickness). Would there be a problem attaching the top to the base and using shims to adjust for a less than perfect fit or even some sort of 'carriage' that sits between the base and the top?

I would say that you only need to level up the area where you are mating the top and the bottom. I am sure someone will come along and give you a bunch of better suggestions and offers of help.

Thanks!

Hope this makes sense.

 

[bigcat4t9r]

In process of doing same albeit hybrid approach instead of full Neander.

I had some shifting of my laminations at then end that caused me to plane more than I wanted but I am certain of its flatness. Here is what I did (as per C. Schwarz) - i have a pdf of the article I can send you if you like:

Winding sticks
Jointer plane directly across grain to remove cupping (use a jack if you have to remove a lot of material)
Jointer plane diagonal down and back in other direction.
You're done when you take full shavings with every pass.
Smooth plane top for final surface.

I used my Stanley #8 with Hock blade/chipbreaker and an aftermarket brass level cap to add more weight. My top is ash. Here are some pics (along with some gratuitous tool porn/gloatage) :gar-La;:

Glued up



Jack diagonals (had a hollow at one end)



Big bossman No. 8





Then the LV smoother (bought from fellow North Carolina Woodworker'er)



After all that, what do you end up with.......THIS!!! (and a flat bench top)

I work in Winston and have a large inventory of planes that I'm restoring/tuning if you need something or if I can help out.

 

[froglips]

Fir is a softer wood, so it'll plane down quickly.

I'm assuming your wood is dry? If not, its likely to twist and warp until it is. You may be fighting against yourself if thats the case.

You won't easily find a way to mark the top for flatness. Its not how hand tool stock prep is usually done. I suppose with machinist tools and some sort of reference surface you could, but wow, thats complicating life.

Top flattening (or in more common terms, the datum or reference face) is about taking a rough surface to as flat as your tools can make it.

As others have suggested, there is a sequence and direction of travel to try to ensure you get a "flat" surface.

Once you have a flat face, the next step is to square an edge to that face.

Now you can use a marking gauge or panel gauge to transfer the top flat face to the bottom. Now you have marks that you can plane to that are "parallel" to the top. Same from the square edge to the far edge for width.

Technically speaking, you'd start with the bottom first (or the inside of a piece for furniture work).

But, in reality, the underside and back of the bench doesn't really need to be worked much.

4 squaring a workbench top is, IMHO, an exercise for power tools. For hand work, just focus on the working surfaces and if need be, only the mating surfaces on the underside.

For example, if you want an apron, just plane the 2" bottom edge flat and parallel to the top. Only where they meet.

Are your 2 fir boards glued up? For his hand tool Roubo bench, Chris Schwarz glued up his two cherry boards first, then flattened them.

Jointer planes have a tendency to crown a board over time. So, if you are working across an 11" board with a 20" jointer plane that tendency will be pronounced when you glue the two boards together.

Ideally, you want to create a valley in the middle and plane the hills down to the valley and stop.

What planes are you working with? Might be part of the challenges you are facing.

Hope that helps?

Jim

Attempting to build a workbench with only hand tools. So far I am just working on 2 slabs of fir 4"x11"x8'. I am trying to hand plane them flat. I seem to only be reducing the height. Every time I attack a high spot or warp I seems to go too far then have to take the whole thing down some more. I have a few questions.

Is there a particular technique for establishing a reference mark to plane down to from initially unsquared lumber?

What is a good rule for how flat to make the top? I don't want to be obsessive about flatness but I would like the bench to be useful for small project (no high-end furniture). I noticed a bench in use at Old Salem that was pretty imperfect but has obviously gotten a lot of use.

Also, I do not want to take too much off the bottom of the top planks (to save the thickness). Would there be a problem attaching the top to the base and using shims to adjust for a less than perfect fit or even some sort of 'carriage' that sits between the base and the top?

Thanks!

 

[jebbylawless]

Froglips,

I've got several planes -all well-used but I'm trying to tune them. I'm learning through this process that I need more camber on my #5 jack and my #6. So far it's been a lot of work by removing very thin shavings - but taking bigger bites would just push the plank around too much on the sawhorses.

So far the planks are not glued up. in hind sight I would have jointed them together first. Now I need to catch the other one up to the first one before gluing.

Good question about the wood being dry. The fir that I bought has been air drying outside for at least 4 years... But as I work slowly (30 minutes here and there over the course of several months) I think that I have begun to see twisting and bowing that I thought had been fixed. Now I'm not sure if I'm just getting more critical as I learn more or if it is actually distorting. Also, the wood is pretty sappy and sticky. Does that indicate that the wood is not dry enough to work?

Great pointer about using jointer planes. I'll try that approach.

Jeff

 

[jebbylawless]

Bigcat4t9r,

Great bench top! I'd love to see the PDF.

Love your #8! I just picked a #8 jointer at an antique store that was in rough shape for $25 but I have been working to knock the rust off. The iron is bent but not on the business end. I may try a hock blade and new cap. I haven't tried that before.

I'd love to see your planes and get some pointers on how to set mine up.

My next challenge is to tune my saws so that I can make my joinery cuts in the 5"x5" timbers for the base.

Jeff

 

[froglips]

Sounds like you are on the right track!

I'd suggest, if you haven't already, look at one of two DVD's from Chris Schwarz. Handplane Basics or his newest, Build an 18th Century Workbench.

They both would go a long way to helping you master your planes and the process of planing.

If you prefer books, the new reprint of Robert Wearings "The Essential Woodworker" from Lost Art Press. This is the first book that has every really explained why planes do what they do (to my comprehension!).

From what I know of Fir, which you couldn't fill a postage stamp with, I think it'll always give you some trouble. Its just a softer wood. 4 years sounds like a good drying time though. What I'd be tempted to do is focus on getting the bench built and leave the flattening to ongoing practice.

Be sure to lubricate the sole frequently as that sap will make your work harder. Might also keep an eye on pitch build up on the chip breaker and lever cap.

With your #6 or new #8, get it close. You will be re-flattening it over the years anyway. It'll give you plenty of chances to come back and try again

You want to take big bites with your #5. This is meant to quickly get a board to "reasonably flat".

The rocking on sawhorses can be helped if you steal from the Japanese. Brace one end of the board against something, like a small child or a house. Plane into the support.

To allow you to work off the edge, you can put a board thinner often called a batten. The batten is thinner than the Fir. You'd likely want two. One at the end and one at the opposite edge between you and the House/Small Child. That way you can plane off the end and clear the support.

Without repeating myself, if you glue up the top boards, you double the mass and likely reduce the racking of the sawhorses.

Please don't take this as criticism, but your statement is sort of "power tooly". You can glue up two boards that are not perfect. With hand tools, try to focus on mating and show surfaces. You'll drive yourself mad trying to get two boards perfectly flat, square and uniformly thick with hand planes.

Took me many years to finally understand that

Keep up the great work and you know, we love pics here on this forum (hint hint)

Jim

Froglips,

I've got several planes -all well-used but I'm trying to tune them. I'm learning through this process that I need more camber on my #5 jack and my #6. So far it's been a lot of work by removing very thin shavings - but taking bigger bites would just push the plank around too much on the sawhorses.

So far the planks are not glued up. in hind sight I would have jointed them together first. Now I need to catch the other one up to the first one before gluing.

Good question about the wood being dry. The fir that I bought has been air drying outside for at least 4 years... But as I work slowly (30 minutes here and there over the course of several months) I think that I have begun to see twisting and bowing that I thought had been fixed. Now I'm not sure if I'm just getting more critical as I learn more or if it is actually distorting. Also, the wood is pretty sappy and sticky. Does that indicate that the wood is not dry enough to work?

Great pointer about using jointer planes. I'll try that approach.

Jeff

 

[bigcat4t9r]

The rocking on sawhorses can be helped if you steal from the Japanese. Brace one end of the board against something, like a small child or a house. Plane into the support.

To allow you to work off the edge, you can put a board thinner often called a batten. The batten is thinner than the Fir. You'd likely want two. One at the end and one at the opposite edge between you and the House/Small Child. That way you can plane off the end and clear the support.

Without repeating myself, if you glue up the top boards, you double the mass and likely reduce the racking of the sawhorses.

Agree 100% - the second picture - taken from the opposite side but you can see the parallel clamps I used to hold a batten down. I also added some lumber to the bottom of the sawhorses to help balance it out and give more heft. I still had to chase it around at times when taking heavy cuts, but it worked out.

Mind you - it was a bear getting my top flat because I had some creep during my final glue-up. I had planed/jointed (powered) the subassemblies. It wasn't that hard - just a lot of work but I used it mainly as a practice exercise.

Another Schwarz tip is before you glue up, take the jointed edges and start a few inches from one end and take a shaving stopping a few inches from the other end. This creates a sprung joint, then benefit of which is it helps keeps the ends tight once its glued up. For those two big pieces, you'll need to through every clamp and the kitchen sink at it.

 

[bigcat4t9r]

Bigcat4t9r,

Great bench top! I'd love to see the PDF.

Love your #8! I just picked a #8 jointer at an antique store that was in rough shape for $25 but I have been working to knock the rust off. The iron is bent but not on the business end. I may try a hock blade and new cap. I haven't tried that before.

I'd love to see your planes and get some pointers on how to set mine up.

My next challenge is to tune my saws so that I can make my joinery cuts in the 5"x5" timbers for the base.

Jeff

I'll e-mail you the pdf in a second.

The Hock blade and cap are great - I've tried the A2 steel ones, but for a jointer, I may consider the O1 as its about $10 cheaper. I've been reading where A2's durability kicks in when sharpen at 30 degrees or higher. Craftsman Studio ships Hock blades for free and usually has a few of them on sale.

Thx for the compliment on the #8 - its kind of pimped out but I haven't re-japanned it. I've done some minor tuning. It does have some pretty good peened initials on the other side. May try some metal filler to see how looks if I feather it out, at a minimum it would smooth it out. I really like the brass lever cap too - got it on the 'Bay along with the paduak tote and knob, but the seller hasn't had any more listings so it was kind of a one shot deal. All of the aftermarket mods really add to the heft of the plane. I'm a weightlifter so the heavy, large planes are the ones I tend to gravitate to.

I'll send you another doc that is the best on setting up your planes, but I'll be more than happy to help out. I've got the 3M buffing wheels, Evaporust pvc tube that can fit a #8, electrolysis setup, etc.

The #8 is a later type, but I did pick up a SW one that is in good shape once I do a handle repair, I may switch to that as my user. I also have a pre-lateral and 1 first or 2nd post-lateral type that I'm going to clean up and re-sell.

The #5 is a post-type 20 burgundy model that I got from sopisodd on eBay. He's a machinist who does restorations. It was pretty weird that I bought that and shortly after that this was on C. Schwarz's blog:

http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/Vintage+Planes+That+Are+Better+Than+New.aspx

The guy went up about 33% on his prices, but I can attest to the quality. I used that as my benchmark for tuning all my others.

 

[Dragon]

Attempting to build a workbench with only hand tools. So far I am just working on 2 slabs of fir 4"x11"x8'. I am trying to hand plane them flat. I seem to only be reducing the height. Every time I attack a high spot or warp I seems to go too far then have to take the whole thing down some more. I have a few questions.

Is there a particular technique for establishing a reference mark to plane down to from initially unsquared lumber?

Thanks!

As usual, I'm late to the party here. Been busy trying to keep the garden up and running and waging war on the bugs. Anyway.........If you have a router, build a sled and use it like a planer to level/flatten your top. Barring that, the suggestions from the other guys sound right-on though I can't speak for personal experience having never tried any of those techniques. Not sure where Forsyth County is but if all else fails and you're just not happy with your end product, PM me and I may have a solution to your workbench needs.