Finishing a bonus room

[ncreefer]

I have a bonus room that is wired for electrical and has the vents set up for air conditioning. I have to insulate it, put up dry-wall, and mud it. I'm planning on buying what I need over the next couple of months so I can do it in the fall/winter, but I'm not sure which R-## to get for the walls and ceilings. Has anyone else done this? I'm in eastern NC (greenville). Also, do I need any permits to do this work? Its framed and wired.

Thanks.

 

[timf67]

I believe that R-15 is code for wall insulation and R-30 is code for the ceiling. As for a permit, as long as you are not doing any framing, plumbing, or electrical you shouldn't need a permit.

 

[Bigdog72]

R-13 for walls

If you want to get a final inspection you will need a permit. If you don't care about a final keep in mind that, if the work is obviously new, when you sell the house you could be asked for a copy of the Certificate of Occupancy. Many lenders ask for this paperwork even though it might not be pertinent.

 

[Travis Porter]

I would think he already has a certificate of Occupancy for the house. When the bonus room was finished will not really be apparent.

Me personally, I would not pull a permit to finish a room that is prewired and already ducted.

I agree R13 is required for walls, but being it is a bonus room, it is going to be hard to heat and cool and if you can afford R15 over R13 I personally would recommend it to improve the comfort level.

 

[ncreefer]

I was thinking I didn't need a permit since the room is framed and has the duct work. I may just have an electrician come in to add a couple of outlets.

I'm new to this and think it would save myself quite a bit of money and give me some work to be proud of. Would you put boards behind the knee walls to better insulate the room? I was reading a few places that this is the new "green" way, builders need to do this in order to have the house considered green. Just looking for some suggestions, as I've heard its hard to heat/cool a bonus room.

Thanks.

 

[Glennbear]

IMHO since the ductwork is in place the HVAC was sized appropriately for the additional space. Insulation is like clamps, never too much/many. :gar-La; R-30 ceiling, and at least R-13 on the walls depending on cavity thickness. :wsmile:

 

[Bigdog72]

I would think he already has a certificate of Occupancy for the house. When the bonus room was finished will not really be apparent.

Me personally, I would not pull a permit to finish a room that is prewired and already ducted.

I agree R13 is required for walls, but being it is a bonus room, it is going to be hard to heat and cool and if you can afford R15 over R13 I personally would recommend it to improve the comfort level.

Travis, you are correct....but if the municipality requires a CO for a change of occupancy (home sold) then they will very likely question the additional space. It's all about $$$$$. Permit fees and property taxes.

 

[Travis Porter]

I would think you could save a good deal of money doing it yourself.

A couple comments from my own school of hard knocks.

Get the sheetrock delivered. They can bring a boom/crane and put it right in the room.
If you have never mudded sheetrock before, contract it out. I learned that the HARD WAY.

Extra insulation be it foam, poly something something, fiberglass, etc all counts and is all good.

 

[mkepke]

<snip>
I'm new to this and think it would save myself quite a bit of money and give me some work to be proud of. Would you put boards behind the knee walls to better insulate the room? I was reading a few places that this is the new "green" way, builders need to do this in order to have the house considered green. Just looking for some suggestions, as I've heard its hard to heat/cool a bonus room.

Thanks.

What do you mean by "boards behind the knee walls" ?

Do you mean add additional insulation to the (knee) walls by using foam-board ?
If so, the best payback is usually from stopping air-infiltration, not additional insulation. Then more insulation..and the best payback will be in the roof and floor (I assume this is over an unconditioned garage), then walls.

An approach that has merit is to have a thin layer of expanding foam shot into the cavities using a commercial rig, then insulate with batts. The foam gives you the air-sealing and insulation of R-5 (per inch).

BTW, don't forget to keep your receipts for insulation and you can claim them on your taxes (30% tax credit for eligible products).

I would hire out the sheet-rocking, taping and mudding. The quality of your work will affect the value of your house. Plus a crew will do it fast - and that has value when you're living in the house. Do the painting yourself.

-Mark

 

[tjgreen]

I finished (well, mostly - still working on the trim) a bonus room above my garage. If your bonus room is above a garage and your garage isn't heated, you might check whether the floor's insulated - mine wasn't. R19 in floors, in case you're curious. I second that it's an inefficient space, I wish I'd put in more insulation. Also might want to check your heating system to make sure it's sized for the extra space, my room's close to 400 sqft and makes a noticeable difference upstairs.

Other things I learned:
You might want to check on the circuit load - I had to add one since it shared the upstairs circuit with two bedrooms and a bath, and I wanted a bunch of lighting and cool toys up there.

+1 for hiring out the mudding, it's the world's worst job. Plus lots of guys need the work right now. Did it myself, and really wish I hadn't - hate to think how many hours I wasted fixing mistakes after the first coat of paint highlighted them.

To save money, don't just order in the sheetrock, order the speedbase and other trim too, and don't forget the screws for the sheetrock. Most building supply places beat the BORG every time.

Don't forget those little metal stud plates that cover wires in the studs before you put up the sheetrock. Inspectors don't care for that, it turns out. :BangHead:

 

[tjgreen]

IMHO since the ductwork is in place the HVAC was sized appropriately for the additional space. Insulation is like clamps, never too much/many. :gar-La; R-30 ceiling, and at least R-13 on the walls depending on cavity thickness. :wsmile:

Unfortunately, that wasn't true for me. Could be some previous owner installed the duct work, or maybe just that the upstairs unit lost efficiency since it was installed when the house was built. Unless it's brand new and you know it was sized for it, I'd still check the HVAC capacity.

 

[Gotcha6]

R 13 is the minimium batt insulation you need, but an inspector would expect to see an R 15 assembly. This means you get an additional R value of 1 each for drywall and sheathing. Pony up & get the R 15 batts and save yourself some coin on the power bill. The foam insulation behind the knee walls is also a good idea. New 'green' commercial buildings now use metal studs with 2" of styrofoam insulation screwed to the exterior face and no batting in the voids. It minimizes transmission through the stud face & creates a dead air void that makes a very efficient system, so use the foam boards outside the knees & pay attention to the joints - caulk/glue it to the studs if you can.
As for inspections, you'd do well to CYA & call for an insulation inspection if it is required by your local code enforcement authority.

 

[Phil S]

If you have never finished drywall, I would strongly suggest hiring that out and if you want to learn watch the process and then try it yourself in the closet first or better yet help a neighbor out and try it there first. Most of the drywalls/finishers are going to want to do the entire job - they will want to hang the drywall and finish it to the ready for paint stage. Most of them will charge per sheet to hang and finish and if you only want finishing the price will be nearly the same.

 

[ncreefer]

Thank you all for your suggestions. I found what I called boards (backing) at this site http://www.customhomeonline.com/industry-news.asp?sectionID=207&articleID=258888 . I'm still in the planning stage, not sure how/when I'll start. Luckily I have 2 buddies who are construction site managers and they said they would help me out with the mudding.

One of my other friends in construction told me that since I will not be doing any framing or additions to the house I do not need a permit. I'm still extremely confused about the permits, I think I'm going to end up having to call the town to find out for sure if I need to have a permit to finish it.

As for the circuit, I'll probably have an electrician come out to do that, my wife seems to want me to stay away from stuff that can burn our house down...:eusa_thin
as for insulation I'm thinking at least R-15 and R-30. Is there any benefit to going higher on the walls? If I put the money out now hopefully it will make the room comfortable and save me the money on my bills in the future.

and the house is only 2 years old so the HVAC should still be good to cover the bonus room. The builder seemed to have not wanted to spend the money to finish the bonus room.

 

[mbolt512]

The boards on the back of the knee walls are there to prevent air washing. The natural air flow through the attic actually degrades the performance of the (fiberglass) insulation. The boards can be just about anything. (OSB, plywood, thermaply, etc.) Keep in mind that if your insulation has a vapor barrier on the heated side then you want to stay away from any backer boards that also provide a vapor barrier as this could trap moisture in the wall.
One more thing........If you have knee walls then you probably also have some angled ceilings as well. Those should be at least R19 which which generally means you will have to fur down the rafters in order to have enough space for the insulation and the 1" baffle.
OK..two more things........take time to caulk or foam anything that can't be insulated such as bottom plate to the subfloor, corners, anywhere two studs are nailed together, around outlets and light fixtures, etc. It's amazing how much this helps. On the average house this adds up to one window left open 24/7/365.

Hope this helps.

 

[CrealBilly]

If you have never finished drywall, I would strongly suggest hiring that out and if you want to learn watch the process and then try it yourself in the closet first or better yet help a neighbor out and try it there first. Most of the drywalls/finishers are going to want to do the entire job - they will want to hang the drywall and finish it to the ready for paint stage. Most of them will charge per sheet to hang and finish and if you only want finishing the price will be nearly the same.

I recall when I was younger and worked as a truck driver for Wicks Lumber. I seen a mudder and a hanger duke it out. Seems the mudder had a slight problem with the way the guy was hanging rock. Construction is mostly union up there and it's really cool to watch those guys working on stilts. I agree contract the rock work out, the stuff is heavy and just a pita to work with if you don;t have experience. Contract it out, lots of people are looking for work nowadays, you'll be glad you did...

 

[ncreefer]

I'm starting to get the idea no one like to hang drywall and mud. I may be young and naive, but I'm still thinking about giving it a go. I have several friends that said they will help me out. I'm in no rush to get it done. The worse that happens is that I mess up and have to call in a professional to fix my mistakes.

Out of curiosity how much would it cost to have a approximately 10 x 12' room done its about 8 feet tall and ceilings also need to be done.

 

[mbolt512]

The worse that happens is that I mess up and have to call in a professional to fix my mistakes.

Note: Word to the wise. Some contractors will actually charge more to fix your mess than to do the whole job as it takes longer to repair than to start new.

Prices vary greatly, but in my area labor only to hang and finish is running about .36 cent per sq. ft. of drywall or $17.28 per 4'x12' board.

 

[gfernandez]

I have to agree with Mike. My neighbor has a bonus room and he had the sheetrock done by someone who did a very poor job. He called the guys that I used to do my basement and they wanted significantly more to come in and just fix the mistakes than if they had done the job from scratch. But, if you are young and willing, just make sure to read up on it before giving it a go.

As far as pricing goes, I have seen it here anywhere between $17-50 a sheet finished. I managed to find some guys who were working on a house in our neighborhood. They did it on the side and charged me $17 a sheet to hang and finish my basement. Not too bad a price and they did a great job. It may cost more for a smaller job. It also depends if you can manage to get 12' pieces in the room or not. If you can, it will be fewer seams and less mudding.

 

[CrealBilly]

Prices vary greatly, but in my area labor only to hang and finish is running about .36 cent per sq. ft. of drywall or $17.28 per 4'x12' board.

Wow that's very reasonable