Festool v Bosch JS Retest via YouTube

[Splint Eastwood]

Thanks to Canuck and his Barrel handled Jigsaw, we retested using same blade:

Same speed and agressive cut setting were used:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWwjJSjGpMU

Next test we switched blades on the Bosch:

The Festool kept the same aggressive cut Progressor blade from above video test:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrJvHVctq2A

In these two tests, I photographed and video'd and Canuck did the actual cutting.

Any questions regarding differences in cut, feel, can be answered by Wayne.

Thanks for looking!

Matt

I hope this answers any previous concerns from first Festool v Bosch JS post!

 

[Tarhead]

Re: Festool v Bosch JS Retest via You Tube

Was the Anti-Splinter Insert used on the Bosch? If it was used was it tight?

My experience with that Bosch jigsaw turned to the Zero blade orbit position, the T380B Xtra-Clean Bosch blades and the insert in hardwood have been as good as my bandsaw.

 

[Splint Eastwood]

Re: Festool v Bosch JS Retest via You Tube

Was the Anti-Splinter Insert used on the Bosch? If it was used was it tight?

My experience with that Bosch jigsaw turned to the Zero blade orbit position, the T380B Xtra-Clean Bosch blades and the insert in hardwood have been as good as my bandsaw.

Mark,

Wayne can answer how tight a fit, but yes, there was an Anti-Splinter insert used on Bosch and Festool.

I sent Wayne an email re: your question.

Matt

 

[FredP]

Re: Festool v Bosch JS Retest via You Tube

I noticed you backed the saw out of the first cut but turned off the saw at the end of the second cut and let it stop before lifting it out. that could skew the results. Even if it didn't make any difference I still can't justify the price difference.:nah:

 

[Splint Eastwood]

Re: Festool v Bosch JS Retest via You Tube

I noticed you backed the saw out of the first cut but turned off the saw at the end of the second cut and let it stop before lifting it out. that could skew the results. Even if it didn't make any difference I still can't justify the price difference.:nah:

Fred, I agree. But, with discount, reward points, and sale of my old Jig Saw, the Festool cost me net $84.50 including free overnight shipping, no tax and full 3yr warranty.

Definitely worth that price ! :tool:

Thanks,

Matt

 

[FredP]

Re: Festool v Bosch JS Retest via You Tube

[/COLOR]

Fred, I agree. But, with discount, reward points, and sale of my old Jig Saw, the Festool cost me net $84.50 including free overnight shipping, no tax and full 3yr warranty.

Definitely worth that price ! :tool:

Thanks,

Matt

At that price point I would buy one.:icon_thum I have no feelings toward fesstool either way. I simply refuse to pay the price. I turn out a lot of projects and don't see that green tools will greatly improve the product or reduce the time.:gar-Bi I have used a few of their tools on occasion. :icon_thum great stuff and they are second to none when it comes to dust collection. I just had to rib ya a little....:rotflm: New tools is always a good thing.:wwink: One question though..... Why would you use that aggressive blade for plywood?????:gar-La;

 

[Splint Eastwood]

Re: Festool v Bosch JS Retest via You Tube

At that price point I would buy one.:icon_thum I have no feelings toward fesstool either way. I simply refuse to pay the price. I turn out a lot of projects and don't see that green tools will greatly improve the product or reduce the time.:gar-Bi I have used a few of their tools on occasion. :icon_thum great stuff and they are second to none when it comes to dust collection. I just had to rib ya a little....:rotflm: New tools is always a good thing.:wwink: One question though..... Why would you use that aggressive blade for plywood?????:gar-La;

I wanted to test for tear-out, so what better way than to use a course blade on thin, cheap ply.

Also, the tear out could be more visible on Video camera.

M:icon_thum

 

[Tarhead]

Re: Festool v Bosch JS Retest via You Tube

Matt,
I've not cut any Luan plywood with my Xtra-clean blades so I can't compare. I don't think I would give much of a care about cuts in Luan. The cuts in solid Cherry were perfect.

The problem I had with the Festool when I bought the Bosch was that you couldn't see the cut very well when using it in the 'mercan way of using a jigsaw...ie: with the jigsaw on top of the wood being cut. The Festool must have a better splinter guard.

Easy fix for the Bosch. Clear packing tape on the bottom of the baseplate and make a slit with an Exacto blade to make a precise opening for the blade. Save those of us with those crappy old Bosch jigsaws or those not willing to jump though the hoops a bunch of money. :gar-La;

 

[Splint Eastwood]

Re: Festool v Bosch JS Retest via You Tube

Matt,
I've not cut any Luan plywood with my Xtra-clean blades so I can't compare. I don't think I would give much of a care about cuts in Luan. The cuts in solid Cherry were perfect.

The problem I had with the Festool when I bought the Bosch was that you couldn't see the cut very well when using it in the 'mercan way of using a jigsaw...ie: with the jigsaw on top of the wood being cut. The Festool must have a better splinter guard.

Easy fix for the Bosch. Clear packing tape on the bottom of the baseplate and make a slit with an Exacto blade to make a precise opening for the blade. Save those of us with those crappy old Bosch jigsaws or those not willing to jump though the hoops a bunch of money. :gar-La;

Festool's splinter guard, is a solid piece of plastic that you cut a kerf into, making it a true ZCI.

Aside from the ZCI and dust collection design, it's not worth the $310 price tag.

But for $84.50 its worth the extra amount for less dust ! :gar-La;

The only reason I did a test comparison, is that Im leary of Co reps demo ing their tools.

I always think their is some kind of gimmick. But after this, Im convinced that there is some difference, but not an almost additional $200.

Thanks for your thoughts, other opinions welcome!

M

 

[Splint Eastwood]

Just wanted to post into New Year !

:banana::kermit::eusa_danc:rotflm:

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

 

[ehpoole]

I'm going to take a chance on thowing a wrench in this comparision....but.... have you actually verified (with the manufacturers or other specs) that an orbital setting of 'III' on the Bosch does in fact have the exact same characteristis as an III on the Festool? I know they are both labelled 'III', but I'm not sure there exists a specific industry standard as to what constitutes an 'III' orbital setting. Also, was the blade stabilizer engaged with the Bosch to reduce lateral vibration (perhaps lateral vibration is the difference between the Bosch and the Festool).

Otherwise, I've always been quite happy with my 1590EVS, though I must confess that I would never -- ever -- use an aggressive Progressor blade, or enable the orbital mode, on plywood unless I was cutting up an old shipping crate for disposal. I know you want to make a point with your video, but I'm not sure it has any practical value beyond minor head-scratching since it does not remotely mirror any behavior we would ever implement with respect to real-world use (who would ever set the orbital setting to anything other than '0' when making a finish-quality cut in any material? Much less use an aggressive blade?) Then we get into the practical questions like whether or not cheap plywood makes for a suitable test bed given the tremendous variations in quality from one section to the next (it looks like the fist test with the Bosch hit an internal knot, for example). We also encounter potential variations in feed rate, pressure, and blade strokes/min, all of which will greatly influence the maximum bite size and strokes/inch of travel which play an important role in cut quality.

I'm not knocking the Festool (or the Bosch), but unless it is your SOP to cut cheap plywood sheets to final dimension using an aggessive Progressor blade and an orbital setting of 'III', I don't see the practical value in this demonstration (though I may be a bit dense :wink_smil).

 

[Splint Eastwood]

I'm going to take a chance on thowing a wrench in this comparision....but.... have you actually verified (with the manufacturers or other specs) that an orbital setting of 'III' on the Bosch does in fact have the exact same characteristis as an III on the Festool? I know they are both labelled 'III', but I'm not sure there exists a specific industry standard as to what constitutes an 'III' orbital setting. Also, was the blade stabilizer engaged with the Bosch to reduce lateral vibration (perhaps lateral vibration is the difference between the Bosch and the Festool).

Otherwise, I've always been quite happy with my 1590EVS, though I must confess that I would never -- ever -- use an aggressive Progressor blade, or enable the orbital mode, on plywood unless I was cutting up an old shipping crate for disposal. I know you want to make a point with your video, but I'm not sure it has any practical value beyond minor head-scratching since it does not remotely mirror any behavior we would ever implement with respect to real-world use (who would ever set the orbital setting to anything other than '0' when making a finish-quality cut in any material? Much less use an aggressive blade?) Then we get into the practical questions like whether or not cheap plywood makes for a suitable test bed given the tremendous variations in quality from one section to the next (it looks like the fist test with the Bosch hit an internal knot, for example). We also encounter potential variations in feed rate, pressure, and blade strokes/min, all of which will greatly influence the maximum bite size and strokes/inch of travel which play an important role in cut quality.

I'm not knocking the Festool (or the Bosch), but unless it is your SOP to cut cheap plywood sheets to final dimension using an aggessive Progressor blade and an orbital setting of 'III', I don't see the practical value in this demonstration (though I may be a bit dense :wink_smil).

All very good points!

First, let me start by saying:

Im not a tool expert by any stretch, but was just trying to reconcile why such a price differential between two finely made German saws

Second, Im not trying to "Diss" any one tool, but want to promote "Diss"cussion. Hoping that someone with more product knowledge could reconcile these differences. So far, Im very happy with the level of discussion. This is not about, MY TOOL is better than your TOOL!

Now to answer your questions in order asked:

No, did not verify technical specs: This, so far, is above my "pay grade". Im hoping someone with technical knowledge can answer via this thread.

As far as practical use, your absolutely correct, there is no practical use. This was done to accomplish two things:

One, to promote discussion (which appears to be happening).

Two, to dramatize and show that there is a difference.
I hope these answers help.

As far as variables: Canuck and I had a discussion re: this and we came to conclusion, that there will always be variables, beyond this test. And there is no way to control this, as we all have different aged tools, blades, materials, etc....

We tried to narrow these variables as much as possible.

If someone with Technical knowledge has the answer, please contribute!

Thanks again for the great thoughts!

Matt

 

[Tarhead]

I would repeat the test with the all different orbital settings for each saw and each blade using the splinter guard. Both saws use the same scale but who knows if 1 on the Bosch is exactly the same a 1 on the Bosch. I like the advice in the Bosch instructions: "test cuts in scrap material should be performed first to determine the best setting."

This is copied from the Festool Trion owner's manual:

In order to cut different materials with an optimum
feed movement, these pendulum jigsaws have an
adjustable pendulum stroke. Select the desired​

setting with the pendulum stroke switch

​

[4.1]:​

Setting 0 = pendulum stroke off

Setting 3 = maximum pendulum stroke
​

Recommended pendulum stroke settings:
Hard and soft wood: 1-3
Wood core plywood, plywood: 1-2
Chipboard, wood,fiberboard: 1-3​

Plastics: 1-2

Ceramic: 0
Aluminum, NF metals: 0-2​

​

Steel: 0-1​

This is copied from the Bosch owner's manual:​

BLADE ORBIT SELECTOR LEVER

Maximum cutting efficiency can be obtained
by adjusting the blade orbit selector lever to
suit the material being cut.
The following chart will help you determine
which setting to use for your application. This
chart is intended as a guideline only, and test
cuts in scrap material should be performed
first to determine the best setting.
Setting O
Hard materials such as
metals or thin sheet metals.
This setting can be used with
knife blades, grit edge
blades, rasp work and down
cutting blades.
Setting 1
Soft materials where cleaner
cutting or delicate scrolling
work is performed.
Setting 2
Medium density materials
such as harder woods or
particle board.
Setting 3
Soft materials such as wood,
plastics, etc. and when fast
cutting is more important
than a clean cut.​

​

​

WARNING​

 

[DWSmith]

The truest statement in this discussion: "The only reason I did a test comparison, is that I'm leery of Co reps demoing their tools."

As a former company tool rep, I know for a fact there are things the vast majority of reps can do to amaze and wow the average non-informed consumer. As well, most of the tool shows are well stocked with carnival performers who can make their item stand up and dance and do things the buyer can't do once they have the tool home. On the flip side, there are many, many reps who can only regurgitate out the technical facts they have been infused with and have little to no practical experience using the tools they are hawking. (BTW As a former company rep, I didn't resort to trickery of foolishness to sell a tool. I was one of the very few who could speak with an end user with real world experience.)

Like the fancy "luxury" cars whose loyal following ignore the fact of what they are under the glitzy advertising, paying to much for an item is as foolish as paying to little.

Also, depending on magazine tests for accurate information is equally as foolish. Remember, the tools tested belong to advertisers and the magazines aren't about to fool around with the advertising revenues by posting a demeaning review. Watch their words, they are chosen carefully. This I know for an absolute fact!

The real test of a tool - how does it hold up after years of service. Forget tests and trials, they are just advertising to get you the consumer to part with your money. Look for the beat up tool that has been used for years and still works as advertised. Or go to your local shop and see what tool or tools have been put up in a corner or on a shelf and are now gathering dust, unused because they failed to perform as promised.

 

[Splint Eastwood]

The truest statement in this discussion: "The only reason I did a test comparison, is that I'm leery of Co reps demoing their tools."

:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap

Excellent Commentary! These are exactly the desired results of this post! To get at the truth!

I'd like to think I made more sensible points as the one high-lited above, but I'll settle for that much.

Anyone one else! Im loving this! Any engineering folks out there who can illuminate from that perspective?

M

 

[Canuck]

I am glad I had the opportunity to try out the Festool.:icon_thum

In my opinion, both saws felt ergonomically correct in my hand and performed well. The Bosch is just a tad heavier than the Festool. What really impressed me with the Festool was the dust collection. I have read that Bosch sell a DC connector but I haven't pursued it. Vibration levels for both saws was extremely low and very smooth. Cut speed felt about the same for both saws.

As far as the quality of cut is concerned, I do know that if I am using Bosch Cleancut blades and set the Blade Orbit Selector (usually '1') correctly for the material I working with, I can get pretty splinter free cuts while using the Anti-Splinter insert in the Bosch 1591. A setting of '3' is a pretty aggressive cut and I normally don't expect a very clean cut.

I am sure that the same would apply to the Festool with a less aggressive blade and readjusting the orbital action on the saw.

Depending upon the quality of cut required, with either Festool or Bosch, I would test the cut on scrap before taking the saw to project.

Thanks for letting me try out the Festool, Matt. I will probably not see any Festool branded tools in my immediate future unless I stumble upon a deal like this one.

For now, I will stick with this Bosch 1591. Sure beats the pants off of my old B&D and Craftsman jigsaws.:eusa_doh:

It was fun!

Wayne

 

[Splint Eastwood]

I am glad I had the opportunity to try out the Festool.:icon_thum

Thanks for letting me try out the Festool, Matt. I will probably not see any Festool branded tools in my immediate future unless I stumble upon a deal like this one.

For now, I will stick with this Bosch 1591. Sure beats the pants off of my old B&D and Craftsman jigsaws.:eusa_doh:

It was fun!

Wayne

Wayne: I also enjoyed it ! Im lucky you live so close by and were able to help me !

Thanks again!

Matt

 

[ScottM]

Thanks guys for taking the time and effort. :icon_thum

 

[Splint Eastwood]

Thanks guys for taking the time and effort. :icon_thum

Scott:

Thanks for your comments and support.

Also thanks to all who contributed comments, so that we can all learn something new about tools, how they work, etc.......

I hope y'all found this interesting!

Matt

 

[Splint Eastwood]

I would repeat the test with the all different orbital settings for each saw and each blade using the splinter guard. Both saws use the same scale but who knows if 1 on the Bosch is exactly the same a 1 on the Bosch. I like the advice in the Bosch instructions: "test cuts in scrap material should be performed first to determine the best setting."

This is copied from the Festool Trion owner's manual:

In order to cut different materials with an optimum
feed movement, these pendulum jigsaws have an
adjustable pendulum stroke. Select the desired​

setting with the pendulum stroke switch

​

[4.1]:​

Setting 0 = pendulum stroke off

Setting 3 = maximum pendulum stroke

​

​

Recommended pendulum stroke settings:

Hard and soft wood: 1-3
Wood core plywood, plywood: 1-2
Chipboard, wood,​

​

fiberboard: 1-3​

Plastics: 1-2

Ceramic: 0

Aluminum, NF metals: 0-2​

​

Steel: 0-1​

This is copied from the Bosch owner's manual:​

BLADE ORBIT SELECTOR LEVER​

Maximum cutting efficiency can be obtained

by adjusting the blade orbit selector lever to
suit the material being cut.
The following chart will help you determine
which setting to use for your application. This
chart is intended as a guideline only, and test
cuts in scrap material should be performed
first to determine the best setting.
Setting O
Hard materials such as
metals or thin sheet metals.
This setting can be used with
knife blades, grit edge
blades, rasp work and down
cutting blades.
Setting 1
Soft materials where cleaner
cutting or delicate scrolling
work is performed.
Setting 2
Medium density materials
such as harder woods or
particle board.
Setting 3
Soft materials such as wood,
plastics, etc. and when fast
cutting is more important
than a clean cut.​

​

WARNING​

Mark,
I did not mean to ignore your comment/question/suggestion. I've done 3 tests, and with the amount of time it takes to set-up, shoot, transfer to computer, upload...........

And I doubt it would satisfy.....

Also, I thought this post would generate more replies. I can only conclude based on number of replies, that there wasn't enough interest in the Test.

Thanks,
matt