Dust collector

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old-delta

Wes
Senior User
Opinions please.
Using 15" surface planer, downdraft sanding table and cabinet saw. A 2hp or a smaller 1.5 hp collector? I definitely will go with canister over bag. New? Used? Any thoughts or opinions based on experience. Thanks guys.
 

Fishbucket

Joe
Senior User
2 hp. Or bigger if you can, or think you'll expand your shop.

drum sanders and planers really need a lot of CFM.

m2c
 

SubGuy

Administrator
Zach
I would seriously consider a 3hp 2 bagger if you can swing it. Especially used. Also a separator make a big difference in collection.
 

Rushton

Rush
Senior User
The key question to ask yourself is "What do you want to accomplish?" Do you (1) just want to collect the dust/chips that otherwise land on the floor and bench tops to minimize sweeping up, or (2) are you concerned about eliminating the micro-dust particles the end up in your lungs and can cause the most serious health problems. If the former, you have lots of choices in the 1 1/2 to 2 horsepower range. If the latter, go to 5 horsepower and a system that can use 6" or larger ducts brought all the way to the machine.
 

luckyGoose

New User
Yogi
If you want fine dust collection at source, you have to factor in duct size, port size and the motor power for the DC. Ideally, you'd need a 5hp motor with 6" ducting and 6" ports, but that's a size-able investment. Alternatively, you could set up a 3hp DC with a thien baffle, but to maximize suction power, only connect it to one machine at a time.

I had a 2hp motor and that barely sucked in half the dust from the planer, and it couldn't handle the dust from the tablesaw blade guard. I went with a 5hp clearvue and still think it's the best investment I made for keeping my shop clear. Also, I built the air cleaner per Bill Pentz design, that helps too.
 

Rushton

Rush
Senior User
...I had a 2hp motor and that barely sucked in half the dust from the planer, and it couldn't handle the dust from the tablesaw blade guard. I went with a 5hp clearvue and still think it's the best investment I made for keeping my shop clear. Also, I built the air cleaner per Bill Pentz design, that helps too.
Agree on both counts. I have a limited number of machines in my basement workshop and do mostly hand tool work, but the first machines I've installed are the 5HP Clear Vue CV1800 cyclone dust collector and the air cleaner per Bill Pentz's design. It always amazes me how much dust gets into the air just with hand tools, so the air cleaner is a must. The 5HP cyclone with 6" ducts to the source captures the vast majority of dust that the machines throw off. I consider these the most important machines in my shop.
 

Jeremy Scuteri

Jeremy
Staff member
The 5HP cyclone with 6" ducts to the source captures the vast majority of dust that the machines throw off.

Just to play devil's advocate, how do you know you are collecting the vast majority of the dust that the machines throw off? We know that micro-dust particles aren't visible, so how are you measuring the dust concentration to know what you are and are not collecting. Another user, gmakra (George) has me questioning some of the "conventional wisdom".
 

Rushton

Rush
Senior User
Just to play devil's advocate, how do you know you are collecting the vast majority of the dust that the machines throw off? We know that micro-dust particles aren't visible, so how are you measuring the dust concentration to know what you are and are not collecting. Another user, gmakra (George) has me questioning some of the "conventional wisdom".
I'll own up to being busted on this one, Jeremy! :) This is my "sense" of the results coupled with my reading on the topic. I don't have a Dylos particle meter to check the results here, but others have done so. At the same time, I don't notice the odor of the dust in the air that I notice after doing a fair amount of hand planing and that disappears after running the air cleaner.
 

luckyGoose

New User
Yogi
You could use a particle meter but I could argue that at every point there's particulate movement, in the shop or everywhere, so the results are debatable. That said, there's a noticeable difference in suction power when using a 2hp motor vs a 5 hp motor, and surprisingly I found that the suction was better when using a 6" Port vs a 4" Port. I went with, the more suction power, the better air clearing. I personally cannot make the claim that most of the dust is captured at the source, but it feels like it does.
 

luckyGoose

New User
Yogi
I'll own up to being busted on this one, Jeremy! :) This is my "sense" of the results coupled with my reading on the topic. I don't have a Dylos particle meter to check the results here, but others have done so. At the same time, I don't notice the odor of the dust in the air that I notice after doing a fair amount of hand planing and that disappears after running the air cleaner.
Amen, the odor goes away after an hour or two of the air cleaner in operation.
 

Jeremy Scuteri

Jeremy
Staff member
I picked up a Dylos particle counter a while back, mostly just to play with. Just the other day I made a cut where the overhead dust guard on my table saw was in the way, so I had to remove it. I noticed the smell of wood dust and went over to check the dylos meter and the levels were really high. Over 10X what I normally see. I wonder what a typical level would be when we just start to smell the wood dust. Obviously tons of variables: wood species, machining operation (cutting, sanding, etc.) and the nose of the person doing the smelling.
 

Jeremy Scuteri

Jeremy
Staff member
Amen, the odor goes away after an hour or two of the air cleaner in operation.

What does that really illustrate though. The smell will go away after some time if you do nothing as well. Running the air cleaner while you are in the shop will certainly collect some dust, but it also stirs up a lot of dust and makes more of it airborne. If you happen to be standing near the inlet of the air cleaner for an extended period of time while it is running, there is a chance that it is pulling all the dust that it is collecting right by your face as it does it's job. Hard to be too confident that this is the holy grail.
 

luckyGoose

New User
Yogi
Fair enough, though I use a Wynn filter that is cylindrical in shape, and the inlet area is way too large to be covered by my face. Regardless, i don't think I've ever observed the smell going away on its own, but my observation environment will likely not match anyone else's. I guess in the end, it's all about what you believe will be helpful or not. I've shared my observations/thoughts, unfortunately I'm not in the position to debate the science behind it.
 

gmakra

George
Senior User
The discussion that wont go away LOL.
You don't need a particle meter to sit in a west facing room late in the day to see all the air borne matter in the air.
That is the ambient dirt in the air, you might realise we live in a sea of dirty air.
Here is a link to Nilfisk industrial vacuums there is a lot of good data in the link along with sprinkling of sales pitch in there.
https://www.nilfiskcfm.com/download...fHMN3S54v3A2U8ISaHhsML5VOtCNKkqUSoow7mQtDdAdw
 

Jeremy Scuteri

Jeremy
Staff member
Of course the discussion won't go away. There aren't any clear answers and objective measurements are difficult. The question people really want the answer to is "What is good enough to protect myself and anyone else in or around my shop"

When you say "we live in a sea of dirty air" that almost implies that we shouldn't worry about it at all. Just cut a bunch of MDF with no dust collection and no respirator, because you know, the air is dirty already so it is no big deal. I don't think you actually believe that, but that is why this topic comes up over and over again.

I'll pick on myself for a moment. It is very easy for me to point out the uncertainty of claims that people make. It is much, much harder to say what they should actually be doing and what is actually adequate (for hobbyist woodworking -- let's limit the scope to that).
 

MarkE

Mark
Corporate Member
I try to keep this very simple.

I have an Oneida Dust Gorrilla cyclone DC. It has a 3hp motor with an 8" inlet size.
I also have an overhead air cleaner that runs whenever I am in the shop.
I do not have any kind of particle counter.

Based on what I see in the DC collection barrel and the dust that I have to clean off of the air cleaners electrostatic filter, and the much lower amounts that I see settling on horizontal surfaces, I know that I am collecting a very high percentage of any dust and chips generated by my machines.

I also know that what I have is the best that I could afford and that what I have is doing a lot more than if I did nothing.

So, to me, it's very simple, having any dust collection is better than not having any dust collection.
 

gmakra

George
Senior User
When you say "we live in a sea of dirty air" that almost implies that we shouldn't worry about it at all. Just cut a bunch of MDF with no dust collection and no respirator, because you know, the air is dirty already so it is no big deal.
Jeremy that's not what I said,look I can see your point of view but the reality is that there is so much chatter about this subject matter that is not grounded in real life practice.
BTW did you ever any of that stuff I sent you? My guess is no.
Bill Pence did both a good and bad thing with his write up one is he did bring attention to the subject matter to the masses . And he made demand for his product.
The bad is that he got people scared and then they start talking nonsense based on a poorly written paper.

Simply put you breathe incredible amounts of gases, skin flora,particles of combustion, mold viruses and so much other CRAP every day. The human body has developed filtering systems and aid that with mechanical systems.

So put together a DC system based on best practices, get an air cleaner if you so desire, wear a respirator but quit worrying about stuff you cant control.
 

sawman101

Bruce Swanson
Corporate Member
I have a Harbor Freight 2 h.p. dust collector hooked up to 24" surface sander, 2 separate router tables, table saw, 6" jointer, 13" planer, 2 separate lathes, 2 separate band saws, and a floor sweep. The DC is located in an 8x8 addition to the outside of the shop. I also use a drum separator. The set up works quite well, and I used 4" sewer pipes and fittings. Cheap, budget set up, and the DC I bought used, not new. There are many things a lot of folks would find fault with in my set up, but the system does what I wanted it to do.
 

gmakra

George
Senior User
sawman good for you and that is a perfect aditude for the subject matter it .
Quit yakking and make some saw dust.
 
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