Alignment Fun ?

[WoodWrangler]

The Problem
- Rip cuts leave shallow "scratch" swirl marks on the ripping edge of the board on the tablesaw from the blade.

The Question
- What generally causes this?

Background
- This is a new saw and it cuts smooth as silk. The blade is a high quality Ridge Carbide TS2000 with less than an hour on it.
- Runout of the fence is +/- .0003 - .0005 at the highest places (from my measurements). Most of this is at the back of the fence.

I can't tell if I am getting these results because something is not aligned correctly, or what. Need advice.

I expect a glue-line rip from this blade (as I used to get that on my other tablesaw with the same blade, so I know it's possible).

 

[DaveO]

All boards, or just a select few? What type of wood, and what is your feed rate?

Dave

 

[Travis Porter]

I personally had this problem using a thin kerf blade on my PM66 even with a blade stabilizer. When I used a 1/8 WWII the problem went away.

If it isn't the blade, have you checked that you have the splitter/blade guard aligned correctly/centered? To me, it sounds like something isn't in line or is out of square.

Is there any play in the arbor - in/out, up/down, etc?

Do you have the height adjustment and angle adjustment locked?

Just throwing out ideas and suggestions.

 

[tom hintz]

Jeremy,

Is your fence tailed towards or away from the blade at the back end? I see you gave a spec but can't tell if you mean towwards or awaay from the blade. It should be away just slightly (I like 0.002 - 0.003") If it is tailed towards the blade, even slightly, it can force the wood against the side of the blade enough to make the swirl marks you describe. The fence being tailed towards the balde is also a good way to increase the chance of a kickback.

 

[Monty]

Yea, what Tom said. You're measuring runout of the fence, but also make sure the blade is in line with the miter slots.

 

[DavidF]

Travis mentioned the splitter; I have had this issue with the thin ones normally supplied. Though these allow for a TK blade they do allow the piece being cut to wander around a bit towards the blade when using a normal width blade. I made my own wooden spliiter that actually exerts a small sideways force towards the fence on the piece being cut. Not only did it remove the swirl marks it produced a much more accurate straight cut edge.

 

[WoodWrangler]

Thanks for all of the feedback ... I will check the saw again tonight and let you know what I come up with. You've given me some idea! :eusa_danc

 

[WoodWrangler]

Well, I did some test cuts and the problem is that the back of the blade is scratching the edge of the board. My guess is the fence alignment is closer at the rear, which causes "one last scratch".

I'll let you know how it turns out ..

 

[Howard Acheson]

What process and gauge are you using to align the blade to the miter slot and the fence to the miter slot?

 

[WoodWrangler]

What process and gauge are you using to align the blade to the miter slot and the fence to the miter slot?

I am using the A-LINE-IT system (pictures here: A-LINE-IT Test #3)

 

[Gofor]

Run a piece thru with your miter guage on the right side of the blade (if thats the side "scratching). If it still does it, the problem is splitter alignment if you are certain the blade is aligned with the miter slot. (the splitter is too far to the left).

 

[rick7938]

What if you get swirl marks both from the front and back of the blade? Mine does that. Does it mean that the fence is properly aligned or that I have a crappy blade?

 

[WoodWrangler]

Here's my update ...

The scratches are about 95% gone now ... :eusa_danc

I needed to adjust the fence half of a hair. The far end of the fence was about .005" closer to the blade than the front ... so a minor tweak took care of that.

As for the extremely light marks I see in places now ... maybe just more adjustment ??? I am going to mess with it this weekend.

Thanks for all of your help!:5thanks:

 

[froglips]

Not to start something.....

But, some say a heel out setting for the rip fence is a good idea. As much as a 64th.

In theory, it means the cut is only made at the front of the blade and a reduction in the risk of kickback.

I kind of like the idea in theory, but haven't played in the real world with it.

Right now, my alignment is so spot on I can cut a wedge shape in any direction....

Jim

 

[tom hintz]

Not to start something.....

But, some say a heel out setting for the rip fence is a good idea. As much as a 64th.

In theory, it means the cut is only made at the front of the blade and a reduction in the risk of kickback.

I kind of like the idea in theory, but haven't played in the real world with it.

Right now, my alignment is so spot on I can cut a wedge shape in any direction....

Jim

Jim,
I became a believer in the tailed-out deal after shooting myself in the stomach at mach 2 or so and then finding the fence tailed in a few thousandths. I keep my fence tailed out no more than 0.003", ususally between 0.000" and 0.002". That works for me and doesn't seem to have any impact on accuracy, that I can measure anyway.

 

[WoodWrangler]

Still gonna need some help here ... the blade is still leaving swirl marks on the edge of rip cuts on my table saw.

The Facts

• Blade is +/- .001" in line with right miter slot
• Fence is in line with miter and I've set it to slightly get further away from the blade towards the back (+/- .003")
• When I push a board through everything goes good until I get to the end. The board is naturally drifting away from the fence, thus forcing the board into the edge of the blade (I think)

I've been adjusting, cutting, adjusting, cutting, adjusting, cutting, ... you get the point. Sometimes cuts look great, sometimes not as good.

Is this just how it is (normal) or can it be tweaked ... :eusa_thin

 

[dtomasch]

Jeez Jeremy,
After seeing that beauty, I thought it made the cuts for you and cleaned up after itself:rolf: :rolf: . sorry you're having troubles, I wish I knew enough to help. Good luck.

 

[woodguy1975]

You are over worrying about it. If the marks can be sanded out with 150 grit then you are fine. If you are sawing stock that is slightly case hardened it will grab around the splitter and then as you get to the last part of the cut the board no longer has that front support and warps slightly. That is probably why you see it at then end and not all the time. Remove your splitter and do a rip cut. If the kerf closes down on itself then that is the problem. You can also check to see how straight your board really is with a straight edge. You don't know how many bdft of oak I've had turn into a U as it was being ripped. Most KD stock you get around here isn't stress releived and has this problem.

If you are still unsure try ripping some MDF and see if the marks are still there. If they are all all your tolerances are around .002" then the problem is technique more than machinery.

Good Luck,

John

 

[Gofor]

If the splitter is not the problem, the only other thing I can think of is that your outfeed table is slanted down toward the left causing the board to "walk" slightly when you get to the end.