Where to find a welding class around the Triangle ?

[mkepke]

Anybody know of a short-duration (couple eves, weekend) intro-to- welding class around the Triangle ?

I know WakeTech offers an evening class, but it's about 30 hrs. across 3 mos. That's way more commitment than I can muster at the moment.

Can one readily learn basic welding skills from how-to DVDs ?

Thanks,
-Mark

 

[TracyP]

In my opinion it would be tough to learn welding in a couple evenings. So many metals to contend with and all.

 

[Rob]

Mark, I can show you the basics, but welding takes practice, it's not something you can learn and then do 6 mths down the line.

If you would like to some weekend, I'll be happy to let you play. Just PM me. I have a mig welder, scrap steal, and a plasma cutter.

 

[froglips]

I'm willing to be a dollar to a donut MikeL is gonna chime in here.

You are in luck. Durham Tech has a welding class starting up soon.

MikeL and I took a class down at Chatham County Community College, "Welding for Artists". It was pretty nice. Got to learn enough welding to do the basics but not in enough detail to weld a bridge.

If you are looking at videos, I'd recommend the Steve Bleile series. I rented them initially from Smartflix, and ended up buying the arc welding dvd 1 for myself.

This is a helpful review of some of Steve's dvds.
http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/arc-welding-video-2.html

If Rob is gonna hold a welding play date, jump on it. That man knows his welds.

Jim

 

[scsmith42]

Mark, do you have an idea as to what type of welding that you want to learn, or what kind of things (metals and objects) that you want to be able to weld?

Scott

 

[DaveD]

Well, I'm a self taught welder of sorts. Confident enough to do structural stuff for myself but would never do it (structural stuff) for others. I know just enough to be dangerous and I have been consistently dabbling into welding for about 6 years now. It would take me years to get enough experience to do pressure vessels or welding to pass x-ray testing.

For me its a bunch of reading, some books, a DVD or two, the internet and not near enough practice.

You can read about the basics and someone can show them to you but practice, and lots of it, is the key.

1/8" steel and up with a AC BUZZ box is pretty easy. Get some scraps and practice.

When you get into the thinner steels like auto body work then its another level of complexity (practice, equipment) up. Generally you are talking MIG in the auto body realm. TIG for anything thinner.

Stainless steel and aluminum are entirely different games and the complexity of the task rises. Not to mention that you are typically getting into the TIG category. Stainless also typically requires back purging.

On the equipment side I'd recommend buying name brand quality equipment. Pay attention to DUTY CYCLE (based on amperage you need to weld at). It typically sucks on lower cost machines. Thicker materials require higher amperage and higher amperage (on any given welder) is at a reduced duty cycle.

I have a Miller 210 MIG welder that will do about 160 amps at 60% duty cycle. (can weld 6 minutes out of every 10). That same welder will do about 100 amps (and below) at 100% duty cycle.

A $500 welder will probably have a 10-30% duty cycle at 100-120 amps (guessing here because its been years since I looked into that).

Miller has a lot of good, inexpensive literature for sale. I'd start off with the student package for $25. Money well spent.

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/tools/

Lincoln Electric also has very good, inexpensive books

https://ssl.lincolnelectric.com/lincoln/apdirect/store.asp?PID=16&cat=8

Lastly, if you are going to get into welding you need to think about how you are going to cut the metal. Before you know it you will have more money in welding 'stuff' than woodworking 'stuff'. Ask me how I know.:gar-La;

 

[mkepke]

Thanks for all the input guys. I have always wanted to learn light duty steel welding; mostly to repair residential stuff and do light fabrication for woodworking (stands, etc).

I do have a job I need done "real soon" and I have the hair-brained notion of trying to do it myself. <where's the uh-oh emoticon ?> The job is extending mild-steel, square tube fence posts by inserting smaller piece of square tube into one end and welding the two together.

On the one hand, it seems like a pretty good reason to dive into welding:
- 14 ga mild steel should be pretty forgiving
- the welds will be buried (read: hidden) in the ground when the posts are set
- I have a lot of posts to extend: it'll be the same weld 224 times, so I should be ok at it by the time I finish
- at least on paper, my "savings" will pay for ~1/2 of the welder and safety gear (thinking a Hobart 125 with flux-core wirefeed)

OTOH, I have no idea what I'm getting myself into :gar-Bi

-Mark

 

[scsmith42]

ok. For the types of welding that you stated below, my first choice would be a small MIG welder (240 volt), set up to use gas shielded wire. My second choice would be an arc welder.

For most new welders, MIG welding is the easiest to learn and use on relatively thin metal (1/4" and under). TIG is usually the most difficult, with arc somewhere in-between.

What kind of budget do you have for equipment?

Scott

Thanks for all the input guys. I have always wanted to learn light duty steel welding; mostly to repair residential stuff and do light fabrication for woodworking (stands, etc).

I do have a job I need done "real soon" and I have the hair-brained notion of trying to do it myself. <where's the uh-oh emoticon ?> The job is extending mild-steel, square tube fence posts by inserting smaller piece of square tube into one end and welding the two together.

On the one hand, it seems like a pretty good reason to dive into welding:
- 14 ga mild steel should be pretty forgiving
- the welds will be buried (read: hidden) in the ground when the posts are set
- I have a lot of posts to extend: it'll be the same weld 224 times, so I should be ok at it by the time I finish
- at least on paper, my "savings" will pay for ~1/2 of the welder and safety gear (thinking a Hobart 125 with flux-core wirefeed)

OTOH, I have no idea what I'm getting myself into :gar-Bi

-Mark

 

[Rob]

Bear in mind that any steel you weld, will rust very quickly, so prime and paint before burying.

 

[MikeL]

Mr. Jim was correct! How many times have you heard that Jim? :gar-La;

I just received the Central Carolina Community College Newsletter in the mail, but it doesn't look like the "Welding for Artists" class is being offered during the summer.

I recently witnessed Scott crank up his homemade welding rig (for some cutting). He knows his stuff. BTW, where are those photos? I should clarify this statement. The welder is not homemade, although I am sure that with a pen cap, a paperclip and a piece of chewing gum, Scott could throw one together. He did however make a really cool mobile welding station that could be used to service Gregory Poole's fleet!

My welding experience has been limited to the course and lawnmower deck repair. :eusa_doh: I do recommend the course.

 

[mkepke]

ok. For the types of welding that you stated below, my first choice would be a small MIG welder (240 volt), set up to use gas shielded wire. My second choice would be an arc welder.

For most new welders, MIG welding is the easiest to learn and use on relatively thin metal (1/4" and under). TIG is usually the most difficult, with arc somewhere in-between.

What kind of budget do you have for equipment?

Scott

For budget, I'm going to try and stay under $500 because it may turn out I get too busy to learn/do much more than Harry Homeowner stuff for the next couple years.

I'm leaning strongly towards the Hobart 125 or 140. The Hobart 125 is a wire-feed flux core welder - seems designed for DIYer things like fence posts - and can be upgraded to MIG with a $100 kit. Only $310 locally. Only going to be welding outside for the foreseeable future so flux-core seems like "it". The small Hobarts get really good reviews everywhere I've looked.

Thoughts ?

-Mark

 

[JimmyC]

Mark,
I think the Hobart 125 would be just fine for what you need. It goes up to 3/16" steel and if you need to do much thicker than that you can look for a used "buzz box" arc welder, I got a used AC/DC Lincoln for $120 so they are out there. Hobart's a very good name too, so that shouldn't disappoint you.

Good Luck,

 

[DavidF]

Take a look at: http://techshopdurham.com/node/126

 

[mkepke]

Thanks..had forgotten about TechShop.

No MIG classes scheduled. Would I learn anything useful for MIG welding from a TIG class - how not to burn myself ? :rolf:

-Mark

 

[scsmith42]

Thanks..had forgotten about TechShop.

No MIG classes scheduled. Would I learn anything useful for MIG welding from a TIG class - how not to burn myself ? :rolf:

-Mark

Re TIG class, very little carries over between the two types of welding. Personally I love TIG - you can do the most artistic work with it and it's the most versatile. It's also the slowest, the most expensive from an equipment perspective, and usually considered to be the most difficult to master.

If you're serious about welding, I personally would not even consider a 120V welder - they are much too limiting and have too small of a duty cycle. You should be able to pick up a good used Miller MIG welder off of Craigslist within your budget, and if you shop right it will be capable of either flux-cored or hard (gas) wire.

Right now there is a Lincoln 175 Mig Welder for sale on the Jacksonville NC Craigslist for $400.00 It includes a cart, setups for both gas and flux cored wire, regulator, and wire.

There is also a Miller 150 MIG welder for sale in Mooresville for $500.00. It probably is capable of both MIG and Stick, and is probably a dual voltage (120 or 240) machine.

Lots of good deals out there - you'll get more by buying good used versus new.

Scott

 

[DaveD]

From what I can tell the Hobart handlers 125 and 140 only have a duty cycle of 20% at 90 amps. The lower the amperage the higher the duty cycle and vice versa.

Weld 2 minutes, idle for 8 minutes. :gar-Cr

Now if you go to the millermatic 180 you will get a 30% duty cycle at 135 amps. However it is a 230 Volt machine while the others are 110V.

Bottom line is you have to 'pay to play' It all depends on how hard you want to play and how much you are willing to spend.

Personally I'd look for a used miller/lincoln in the 200 amp range (I have owned both and currently have the millermatic 210). They can be had for $800 or so on craigslist if you look long enough.

The rule of thumb for amperage is about 1 amp per thousandth of thickness so those 14 gauge posts will need about 78 (give or take) amps of welding current.

 

[DaveD]

I don't think you can do stick with your typical mig welder. At least not the dozen or so I have looked at over the years.

TIG machines are a different animal though.

While we are talking welders, if you go to the solid wire with shielding gas that you MAKE DARN SURE that your gas supply/welding house will refill/exchange whatever tank you buy. Most will only do their own tanks.

Also even if you 'buy' a tank (I have several bought tanks) they will only exchange it when you go for a refill. You give them the empty and they give you a filled one. Its no big deal though. I have been doing it for years.

As far as tank sizes, you will typically get a better deal on gas price the bigger the tank you have. Mine are 160 cu ft, about 5' tall and probably weigh close to 90# or so.

You use gas up at an hourly rate (typically somewhere between 15-20 cu ft per hour of welding). So a 160 cu ft tank will let you weld about 10 hours or so (theoretically).

HTP welders seem to have a decent reputation amongst hot rodders. They also have a 140 series mig.
http://www.htpweld.com/index.htm

Seems you need to order their catalog to see the prices though. IIRC they are competitive with Lincoln/Miller. Maybe a little lower like Hobart (actually made by miller).

Also realize that some smaller TIG welders are DC only so you can't do aluminum with them.

 

[scsmith42]

Dave - very good advice above! I like your advice re the 1 amp per .001 rule - had never heard that before but it seems like a good rule to follow.

One of the welders that I looked up on Craigslist was shown as a combo MIG/stick machine according to the manufacturer's website. I concur that they are unusual.

Central Welding (now Praxair) in Sanford has been kind enough to send off my owner bottles to be refilled for me. I have ownership papers on them (was difficult to find owner bottles that large - mine came from Chicago and pre-dated the size restrictions that the welding companies started to enforce back in the 70's). I too like those 160 cu ft models, and have both Argon and Oxygen in them. It can take several weeks for the turnaround though, so I have to rent something in the interim.

I concur about the larger amp MIG being more desireable, but coulndn't find any used ones in his price range. The one's that I listed were a 90% or better duty cycle at 90 amps, thus much better than the 120V machines.

What other welding related equipment do you have?

Scott

 

[froglips]

Not to throw a monkey in the wrench, but.....

I haven't seen anyone talk about Oxy-Acetylene. I think its worth considering, given its versatility and uses in woodworking/plumbing etc. Heat treating tools, cutting torch etc.

Personally, I own a small buzz box, but eventually wanna get a torch.

Jim

 

[Rob]

I own a torch, only thing I ever use it for is heating bolts and bending steel. Well, ever since I got a plasma cutter.